I don't know where to post this. Feel free to move it. Sometimes I log in and see lots of political stuff
then ten minutes later I can't find any of those posts.

I was just wondering about scripture regarding enforcing codes, local laws etc.
It seems to me there is clear direction on what to do about a person who harms another life or another person's property.

I hate to use the word libertarian on yet another thread but that is exactly where libertarians think the law enforcers should be involved. Damage to another life or someone else's property or freedom.

Is that approach inconsistent with the Bible?

I know that in this town where I live there have been police raids on lingerie shops, a raid on a "performance" by the Chippendale dancers in which the charge was pelvic thrusting by men who were dressed. And daily there are fines for dogs deemed to be left on a leash too long. Too many unrelated people living in a home etc.

It seems to me that Jesus addressed issues and confronted people but he didn't force people to be dignified or even moral. It seems scripture says...tell them, take a group and tell them, then eventually shake the dust off your sandals and let God deal with them. Is it possible that if we realized God can handle a rebel we wouldn't be on witch hunts?

I am seriously asking because I am very coachable if I need correction.

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Richard H. King
Providence PCA
Lubbock, Texas
"No matter how far a man goes, he eventually finds out God's already there." John Wayne - the last line in "Chisum"

Moved to Law of God forum (my best guess). As for political threads, they go in the pol and gov forum; if they are not, some meddling moderator will move them there.

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Chris Coldwell
Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
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This is how I see it. The command not to murder precedes the nation of Israel. Back in Genesis God said that a man who sheds blood will have his blood shed by man. The idea of punishing murderers with the sword is picked up in Romans 13.

I don't believe that the purpose of the Law is to reform society. It can't change us. That's why I think the only purpose of the civil magistrate is to keep society as orderly as possible by punishing those who harm others. Other than that, in the words of Lysander Spooner, "vices are not crimes."

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Davidius
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

Vices may not always be crimes against others, but they are still sins are they not?

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Jeffrey Wilson
Cornerstone Reformed Baptist Church
London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689
Summerland, British Columbia, Canada

"Discrimination is just a choice based on knowledge and good reason" Farrell Griswold

Exactly, they are sins. But it should be obvious that not every sin is a criminal offense

__________________
Davidius
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

No doubt they are sins if they are vices but who gets to say what a vice is
or rather which vice is the government's business ?

And is it Biblically the role of the government to punish sins other than crimes
against life and property? Do we want feds regulating our gluttony?

I know a lady that thinks ANYone who has a pit bull should be fined.
The same lady would advocate laws about appropriate cleavage.

The danger is letting the government decide who is "bad for society"
and enforce a change.
I am fine with church and society dictating what they approve but ...does the Bible say that government enforcers should enforce marital fidelity etc.?
If you let feds or even local do gooders start down this road you can't stop them. We have city councilmen in this town trying to pass a city ordinance against sagging pants. While sagging pants are ridiculous I wish city council was working on something more beneficial.

Let me give you another angle. There are people I know who have left the city to live in agrarian communities and since they have children...there are parenting police who go overboard in Children's Protective Services who want to ENFORCE the "proper" education of these children andprobably work hours done on these farms.

And if you think they won't conjure up reasons to investigate and enforce we know better in Texas.
They still haven't found the automatic weapons and the drug labs that we were told were in Waco at Mt. Carmel.

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Richard H. King
Providence PCA
Lubbock, Texas
"No matter how far a man goes, he eventually finds out God's already there." John Wayne - the last line in "Chisum"

I am still trying to figure out where you live... Do they really enforce this garbage? Remind them the law officers are to protect and serve first and foremost. They must have a lot of time on their hands

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N. Robert; Trinity Reformed Church RCA, Holland MI

Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right."

Right. Getting drunk at home is a sin, but it is not a crime.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Indeed, though I think we can make the case that if someone was getting drunk outside your house at night, and keeping you awake, you could report him to the magistrate where he would receive a whipping (Deut. 25:1-3); though there is a difference between this sort of thing, which can be settled out of court, and a crime which must be punished.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

In many places public drunkeness is a crime.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

I wrote a short article on this subject on my blog page on November 4 here: Reflections of Joy

I think the general thinking of Calvin and other reformers was (ideally) that public officials would uphold God's laws for the community. Based on their idea of separation of church and state, individual behavior that did not involve the community would fall under the jurisidiction of the church. If I am off on this, perhaps some of you church history scholars could set me straight.

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J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

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In Northern Ireland it is actually a crime to drink on the street (not get drunk just drink out of a can or bottle). Yet it is legal to be a Sodomite.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)