The thread about watching football violating the Sabbath command made me think of this.

In fact, not only video games but most forms of media entertainment violate more than on of the Ten Commandments, so how far should we take not violating the Ten Commandments?

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Erick Bohndorf, Covenant Baptist Church, KS
http://qayaqtraveler.blogspot.com/
The question for us today is, will we be like the majority of Israel and continue to look in fear at the giants in the land and urge our fellow Christians to be "realistic," or will we be like Joshua and Caleb and faithfully follow our king, trusting to fulfill every one of his promises completely?

Did the zombie attack first and you shot them in self-defense?

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Chris Rhoades -33
Good Shepherd Presbyterian Church (PCA) Nashville, TN-Under Care

Vera theologia non theoretica, sed practica est; Finis siquidem eius agere est hoc est vitam vivere deiformem. - Martin Bucer
""True theology is not theoretical, but practical. The end of it is living, that is to live a godly life."

We should never violate the Ten Commandments. Period. Is it possible to play a game that has violence in it without violating the sixth commandment? I think it is possible, depending on the person. In principle, it is not a different category from boys playing guns and "shooting" one another. It is different in degree, since the violence is all too realistic these days. There are degrees of violence shown in video games, as well. So, the question might be too broad. It might be more helpful to say whether a specific video game violated the sixth commandment by making violence seem too attractive. I think that there are violent movies that dramatically uphold the value of human life. Take Harrison Ford's movie The Fugitive, for instance. Although not a movie for children, I think the movie dramatically upholds the value of human life. Same thing with Air Force One (I really, really like Harrison Ford as an actor!). The problem comes mostly when violence is glorified for its own sake. Violence is sometimes necessary, as in just war theory. Do we want to encourage violent behavior in our children? Of course not. Therefore, it is a matter of wisdom to know how such and such a game/movie will affect such and such child (or adult!).

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Rev. Lane Keister
Teaching Elder, PCA, North Dakota (working out of bounds in a CRC and an RCA church)
http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com
http://brahmsgreenglove.blogspot.com
http://accenttranslation.blogspot.com
Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

We can't/shouldn't afford it... To spend money on these things and to bring them into our homes is to countenance their content.

I think of Philippians 4:8 often, and more and more frequently now, as the issue of "entertainment" for my family and myself intrudes more urgently as the culture coarsens. Uh, you rule out a whole lot of things that are acceptable now to the vast majority of people if you aim to think only of things that are "honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report" (KJV). But what else should a son or daughter of the King, indwelt by the Holy Spirit, give him- or herself over to? Things that are not honest, just, pure, etc.?

Trying right now to acquiesce to a huge re-working of my own entertainment tastes; the Holy Spirit is one powerful Master of Ceremonies, that's for sure!

Thank you so much for this thread!

Margaret

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Margaret
Free Church of Scotland [Continuing]
Michigan

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" - Isaiah 5:20-21

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Donald Jacobs
Marysville. WA
Cascade Church (CRCNA)

Cum vero infirmor tunc potens sum.

I guess technically there is a difference between anything from the Grand Theft Auto series and anything from the Tom Clancy series.

In the former the character is doing various criminal activities in the later the characters are killing terrorists.

I'm always the good guy. They are always the bad guys. It's extreme justice. I need more ammo.

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Jim
1689 LBCF
Independent Bible Church
North Texas, USA

I definitely agree with Lane's assessment. Clearly we should always be striving to uphold the Ten Commandments. As for the subject of video game violence I'm not sure it really is so cut-and-dry. Surely it is not edifying but not all "shooting" games could be deemed violent (imagine a clay or trap-shooting game). The problem though becomes stickier as technology improves and tries to give gamers a more "realistic" experience. As your computer simulated opponent becomes more and more life-like I believe that is where more concern is needed.

Another sticky area is with online games or MMOs. Often your very opponent is another living person, albeit, represented by some colorful pixels. As Lane pointed out it can vary from person to person, but some players see it only as a game, others take it too personally. These latter individuals can end up having murderous thoughts wanting to extract revenge. Obviously this can come dangerously close, if not even, to violating the sixth commandment. Just my . A good question Erick.

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Ed Asano
Center Grove Presbyterian (PCA)
Edwardsville, IL

"You may choose to look the other way, but you can never again say you did not know.” - William Wilberforce (1789) In his conclusion to his three-hour abolition debate in the Houses of Parliament.

Any Halo 3'rs out there? Holla!! You wouldn't want to meet me online hahahahahahaha oh sorry

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Richard W. Roldan "Ricky"
Member and Teacher of Iglesia Presbiteriana Reformada Berea (PCA)
Winter Haven, FL./ Under Care of the Southwest Presb.(PCA)

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations,...” Jesus

" I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. I do it all for the sake of the gospel," Paul

I have to come in on the side of "it depends..." The comment about Tom Clancy games vs. Grand Theft Auto games was well taken. In fact, I was a HUGE fan of the GTA games before I had a sudden attack of conscience (stupid conscience!) and realized I was putting hours into a game that had me killing innocent characters for money and drugs. It was weird...the next time I played the game, I just couldn't do it anymore and it suddenly repulsed me.

Shame...from a gaming and computer graphics point of view, they were some of the best games made, in terms of physics engines and the ability to interact with the game's environment. Sorry, the computer geek in me just got out again!

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Bill in Dayton, OH
Member of Redeemer OPC

"Show me Your ways, O LORD;
Teach me Your paths.
Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
For You are the God of my salvation;
On You I wait all the day." (Psalm 25:4-5)

No. First person shooter video games do not violate the command against murder!



I think it's important to keep a clear distinction in mind between what is reality, and what is fiction.

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Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
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"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

Does shooting people in video games (and watching many violent movies) desensitize the player (watcher) against real life violence?

I have seen statistics that state that people of the present generation, who are in the military, do not have any compunctions about pulling the trigger on another human being, but in the past it was not unusual to find rifles that had not been fired, presumably laying next to their dead bodies. Is this because of the above question?

What if there were a game about sex? Would it be a legitimate game, so long as the game said that the woman was your wife each time? No need to explain the details of the game. This one seems cut and dry.

It's more difficult when you are killing people left and right, and it looks realistic. Certainly sin should never be seen in a positive or even neutral light. Both are schemes of Satan. If you are a first-person murderer, then, sure, it's wickedness to imaging killing innocent life. If you are a first-person (say) member of Wyatt Erp's group of law-enforcers; then you are dispensing justice, and are not imagining taking innocent life, but guilty life.

As alluded to, games which glory in the murder of the innocent are used by the devil to desensitize men to the nature of sin, and are part of the depraved imaginations of man's heart from his youth. Grand Theft Auto certainly fits the bill of glorifying lawlessness.

Generally, the context of a game helps determine whether it's lawless or not. As Scripture uses sin, not to glorify sin, but to condemn it, so a game could.

Anywho, those are my two cents.

Cheers,

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Adam Brink, Livermore, California
Grace Church of Pleasanton, PCA

He who was punishable by death under the judicial law, is punishable by death still; and he who was not punished by death then, is not to be punished by death now.

I play Sauerbraten every now and then. You're either 'killing' evil looking creatures or when playing multi-player you're 'killing' other players. Of course you're not really killing anyone. The person gets a new life in multi-player mode. Generally I like to wait at the red regen point and kill them off as they regenerate. Either way I'm not thinking of killing people, only clearing out the level in single player or getting flags for my team in multi-player. It's a good hours worth of fun. More than that and I see it when I close my eyes.

I also like Destroy All Humans 2. Hippies gotta go! What's fun is using your telekinesis to throw them. Generally you're spending your time trying to save the human race. And hiding Mothras eggs.

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Chris Thomas | SBC-Founders | Fairbanks, AK

Q. How many things are necessary for thee to know, that thou, enjoying this comfort, mayest live and die happily?
A. Three, the first, how great my sins and miseries are, the second, how I may be delivered from all my sins and miseries, the third, how I shall express my gratitude to God for such deliverance.

Blog: http://johngillisdead.blogspot.com/

But I think that this is one of the very points at issue. How many teens who saturate their minds with FPSers keep such a distinction clear - lest we forget Harris and Klebold of Columbine infamy?

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Adam J. Myer
Pulpit Supply for PCA/OPC/URCNA congregations in the spiritual wasteland known as the Pacific NW
Evergreen Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Hinterlands of Oregon

Soli Deo Gloria

we boot spawn killers!!!

Be truthful. You know you do the same after somebody frags you.

Didn't know there were any other Sauerbraten players here.

Its fine as long as you're killing bad guys. If you ARE the bad guy then I think there's something wrong with that. I like Halo alot. Call of Duty 4 is even better! You get to use guns that actually exist!! :P

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Manley Beasley
Southern Baptist Convention
Lynchburg, VA

Wir sein pettler. Hoc est verum (We are beggars. This is true.).--Luther's dying words

What is murder? I think Christ made it clear that murder is 1) the actual taking of a human life, and 2) hatred in the heart. Video game shooting does not take a human life. If the game causes hatred (for police officers, law-abiders, etc.), then that game isn't appropriate for you (and each person would have to listen to their conscience on this).

I think the issue of sex, which someone brought up, is the same thing. Adultery is 1) the act of infidelity, or 2) lust. A video game player isn't actually having sex, but it can cause lust, which is still adultery.

I think it's important to draw your own boundaries where you believe Scripture does (also taking into account the amount of time spent and the kinds of things we're supposed to dwell on). However, we can't bind anyone else's conscience where Scripture does not.

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Kim G
Non-denom church (holds to the WCF)
Zion Community Church, Greenville, SC

Teach me Your way, O LORD;
I will walk in Your truth;
Unite my heart to fear Your name.
Psalm 86:11