The Decalogue and the Civil Magistrate - Page 2

crhoades · #41 (**permalink**) 01-12-2007, 11:51 PM

Adding to the list:

Quote:

William Ames - Conscience and Cases Thereof, 1639 Book IV, Chap. 4 Of Heresy

Question 6 - Whether are Heretics to be punished by the civil Magistrate?

12. A.1. That Heretics are to be resisted by everyone that is godly, according to the calling and power which he hath received from God, it appears sufficiently from the nature of the thing: because all the godly are called to a christian warfare, and are in their stations every one to oppose themselves to the kingdom of darkness.

13. A.2. The place and office of a Magistrate requires, that he repress wicked men that trouble the Church, even with the sword, or with public and external power if there be need, Rom. 13.4, 1 Tim. 2.2.

14. A.3 If therefore Heretics be manifestly known and publicly hurful, they are to be restrained of the Magistrate by public power.

15. A.4. And if they be manifestly blasphemous, and pernacious, and stubborn in those blasphemies, may suffer capital punishment. for that Law Lev.24.15,16 although it bind not Christians as it is a Law, yet as it is a doctrine coming from God, it does belong to the direction of Christians in cases of the like nature. When therefore the glory of God, and the safty of the Church requires such a punishment, it may, and if other remedies have been used in vain, it ought to be inflicted by the Christian Magistrate.

Book V. Chap. XXV Of the Mutual obligation between Magistrates and Subjects

8.3 The chief care of the Magistrate ought to be, that he promote true Religion, and repress impiety. Isa 49.23. Psalm 2.11. Examples of this care are commended in David, Solomon, Josaphat, Hezikiah, Josiah, etc. The business of the Lord, and the business of the King, are not so disproportionate, (as you may see in the 2. Chron. 19.11) but that the care and knowledge of the things which are Gods, may well belong to the King: But they are thus truly distinguished, that in the managing of affairs the King play his part politically, and the Priest his Ecclesiastically.

ChristianTrader · #42 (**permalink**) 01-13-2007, 12:06 AM

I love it when we find the modern two-kingdom doctrine found in the puritans writings. Good job, Chris. Warms my heart that we have not strayed.

CT

crhoades · #43 (**permalink**) 01-13-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianTrader

I love it when we find the modern two-kingdom doctrine found in the puritans writings. Good job, Chris. Warms my heart that we have not strayed.

CT

I think the last answer shows at least one puritan's outworking of general equity.

armourbearer · #44 (**permalink**) 01-13-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crhoades

Adding to the list:

This quote from Ames shows that he was theodidactic, not theonomic. I may even have made that point once before.

ChristianTrader · #45 (**permalink**) 01-13-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armourbearer

This quote from Ames shows that he was theodidactic, not theonomic. I may even have made that point once before.

How is the quote non-theonomic?

CT

crhoades · #46 (**permalink**) 01-13-2007, 12:29 AM

As an aside, my goal in collating our forefathers' views regarding the magistrate and the first table is not to argue for/against theonomy but rather to establish the drift we've undergone. We always cry out to go to the sources to determine what is reformed, well I'm doing that and whether one thinks that theonomy is/isn't found there we can all rest assured that pluralism and the modern day notion of separation won't be found there. If anything it was theocratic in the sense that the Magistrate was bound to God in his duties. Both tables.

If I may humbly request not to bloat this thread by rehashing theonomy again so we can use it as a collection piece. If there is a quote such as Ames above that sparks discussion, may I suggest that someone start a new thread?

armourbearer · #47 (**permalink**) 01-13-2007, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristianTrader

How is the quote non-theonomic?

He says "it bind not Christians as it is a Law," nomos, "yet as it is a doctrine," didache. He recognises discretionary power to be exercised by the magistrate: "When therefore the glory of God, and the safty of the Church requires such a punishment." It is not legislation which must be rigidly enforced. Hence he says "it may be used," and says it only ought to be inflicted "if other remedies have been used in vain."

ChristianTrader · #48 (**permalink**) 01-13-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armourbearer

He says "it bind not Christians as it is a Law," nomos, "yet as it is a doctrine," didache. He recognises discretionary power to be exercised by the magistrate: "When therefore the glory of God, and the safty of the Church requires such a punishment." It is not legislation which must be rigidly enforced. Hence he says "it may be used," and says it only ought to be inflicted "if other remedies have been used in vain."

I sincerely believe that you overly limit the flexibility in Theonomy, but I won't fight you. I only have a limited number of arrows and hours in the day, and they will not be used on a fellow two-tabler.

CT

armourbearer · #49 (**permalink**) 01-13-2007, 01:02 AM

In Latin "two tabler" would mean I like desserts. True on both counts.