Are these claims correct?

1. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine. The English word wine originally had two meanings also - unfermented juice or alcoholic drink.

2. In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.

Are there any here who oppose the consumption of alcohol? If so how would you respond to these:

Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs “drink wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:11 encourages “yes, come buy wine and milk…”

http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-alcohol.html

At the wedding feast at Cana, the steward comments that, traditionally the "cheap stuff" is rolled out at the end when people can't tell, as readily, the quality of the wine.

Yet Jesus made wine for this crowd.

Christ was repeatedly accused of being a drunkard. I wonder if the Pharisees were prohibitionists.

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Rich
Okinawa, Japan

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The teaching that is proposed here by some of the brethren, when examined closely is absurd. If what they teach is so, then the people labored all year in thier vineyards so they could have grape juice for about three days a year. The juice begins to ferment in around 4 days. The Lord drank fermented wine at the last supper because it would have been impossible (without a miracle performed by him) to have grape juice at that time of year. They could have had plain juice only once a year at harvest time and then for just a few days.
The modern day temperance movement, which is abstinance and not temperance, is a product of bad teaching that has come around since the later part of the 19th and early part of the 20th centuries as far as I can tell. It is extremely popular among antinomian fundamentalists and hyper arminian holiness types.

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1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

BTW, good morning brother Richard and brother Rich. I hope you have a wonderfull Sabbath day and that our Lord pours out many blessings upon your families today. The same for any reading this thread.

I strongly oppose the drinking of bad or cheap beer, does that count?

What James said is spot on. Blessed Lord's Day to you all.

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Bob Vigneault (Bawb Vēēn-yo)
I just know there's got to be a pony in here somewhere!

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A motto for us all to keep!

__________________
Jeff Bartel
Mechanical Engineer
Member - Trinity Reformed Church - RPCNA

"To believe in the power of man in the work of regeneration is the great heresy of Rome, and from that error has come the ruin of the Church. Conversion proceeds from the grace of God alone, and the system which ascribes it partly to man and partly to God is worse than Pelagianism" (The Reformation in England (London, 1962), Vol. 1, p. 98)

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Thank you James. I had a great Lord's Day. May God's Word richly bless you today.

What a great quote! I have go thirds on that! So by good beer, do you mean Old Milwaukee, or Natie Lite!

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Dustin T. Thomas
USAF HH-60 Gunner
Central Baptist Church
Okinawa, Japan

Dustin,
you're new here so I'm going to cut you some slack on that. But don't test me, I might be the meanest moderator on board. Take whatever stand on baptism that you find meaningful but don't poke fun at the art of good beer discovery.

Blessings new friend, and welcome.

what? is there more than one Sunday? Do you live in some parallel dimension?

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Excellent points here James.

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~ Steven Bradford ~
Member Covenant Presbyterian, Chattanooga, TN

Here's G.I Williamson's book, Wine in the Bible & the Church in pdf:

http://www.all-of-grace.org/williamson/Wine_Book.pdf

And here's his home page:

http://www.all-of-grace.org/williamson/index.html

On one of his visits here to the John Calvin Centre in Cyprus, G.I. said to a young pastor and myself, "Let's go get some Scottish food!" We had lunch at McDonalds.

Steve

P.S. My posting this does not mean I endorse all G.I's views!

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Steve Rafalsky
Elder, International Evangelical Church (Reformed)
Limassol, Cyprus

"I am set for the defense of the gospel" (Philippians 1:17)

"Strengthened with all might, according to His glorious
power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness..." (Colossians 1:11)

I oppose alcohol for my own use since I am a recovering alcoholic, I do believe in moderation for the Church since she is a witness, studies have shown a disturbing trend in North America and the UK, a trend towards being alcoholic societies. Since I Tee-Total, some might discount me and say I want some prohibition or something, not so, I simply feel the people of God bought with the blood of Christ should be very careful in the use of intoxicating beverages.

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~etexas~

The way I oppose Russian roulette, I oppose the use of alcohol. But, guess what? Nobody cares.

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bwsmith
wife, mother and grandmother!
Severna Park Evangelical Pres. Church (PCA)

Cares about your opinion or cares about the fact you compare something God gave to man with Russian roulette?

Why?

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
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I think bwsmith is perhaps saying that for someone to drink is like playing Russian roulette in that if they take a drink they may find that they are an alcoholic and thus eventually die.....or something like that. Please excuse me if I'm way off the mark, bwsmith.

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Ivan Schoen, Pastor
Maranatha Baptist Church
Poplar Grove, Illinois USA
http://maranatha-sbc.org/
Husband to Nancy
Father to Sherril, Sarah, Kathryn
Grandfather to Phillip
Faith is the refusal to panic. Martyn Lloyd-Jones

Ivan, I understand. I was really trying to press the issue. The idea is to avoid whatever has the potential to kill. But with that same logic we should avoid fire, electricity, handguns, etc. ad nauseum. It's fallacious to take such issues and make them equally as dangerous to men of all different walks of life.

I am assuming that that is where she is going with it as well. I would suggest that if you take a group of say 100 people, a certain number WILL become alcoholics...........don't believe me? Ask a Medical Doctor or drug and alcohol professional with a lot of time in their field. Not an opinion......a fact.

And such people who are unable to control their consumption ought avoid it. But this is not a rule against those who're able to consume alcohol for enjoyment and to the glory of God and can't be imposed universally since no such prohibition exists in Scripture.

Brother if you read my first post on the issue you will see I agree with you 100%, heck........I miss Scotch at times! Why I can't drink it.

No, that's actually an opinion that could never, ever be substantiated as an absolute fact.

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Davidius
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

This may explain the old adage about Baptists being Methodists with shoes, and Presbyterians being Baptists who can read. To round out the adage, Lutherans might qualify as Presbyterians who drink to excess, and Episcopalians as Lutherans who know when to say when. - D.G. Hart