I remember a while ago in a thread regarding elders at a church who dressed up as women, some people commented that they don't think it's permissible to joke about sin. I thought about what the implications might be of this:

Is it wrong to say, "That team just got murdered"?
Is it wrong to say, "That's gay"?
This is especially common among young men, but...Is it wrong to act gay a little bit (speak effeminately, use homosexual mannerisms)?

There are certain jokes involving sin I can think of that would seem to be sinful themselves, such as "that's what she said" jokes, or jokes that speak about God in an irreverent way.

Anyway, my conclusion that I have tentatively come to is that jokes about sin are wrong if they either (1) make you dwell upon sin or (2) make you sin. (Or they're wrong if it is reasonable to assume that any of the listeners will do (1) or (2).)

What are other opinions on this issue?

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Ben Maas. . . . .Facebook
In college, attending First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA), Ada, OH, and
Belle Center Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPCNA), Belle Center, OH
When at home, attending Covenant Presbyterian Church (OPC), Mansfield, OH

“Prayer is as natural an expression of faith as breathing is of life.”
-Jonathan Edwards-

I aggree with you.
To add to your thought, in most situations, I think that it would cause one (or others) to dwell upon sin. In situations where a term like 'murdered' is used in it's idiomatic, everyday usage manner, I doubt many people would then start thinking about the sin (I know I don't).

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Dave
Attendee Chilliwack Heritage Reformed
Abbotsford, Canadia

"God does not love us the way we are! God loves us so that we can become what He wants us to be." - George Grant

I am glad you brought this up, as it is a good reminder. I think one of the problems is that when we use the terms murder, or gay, or even "I hate that" we tend to use them in benign ways. This minimizes the seriousness of sin against a holy God. We do need to be careful about our language when it makes serious things non-serious.

Another thing that I might mention in this general area is the joking about scripture. Consider the popular joke about baseball in the bible (Genesis 1/the beginning = the big inning). This is God's holy and inspired word, so it is wrong to make such jokes.

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Tim Lindsay
member, Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, Halifax, NS, Canada
Living in Cape Town, South Africa
"under the Southern Cross, at the foot of Table Mountain, not far from the Cape of Good Hope"

Yes, it is for this reason of making weighty matters into trivial conversation that joking about sin was a huge no-no in the community that I grew up in. Interestingly, this same line of thinking was also applied to sins depicted in drama, and hence the rule of "no drama allowed" in my denomination (although for all practical purposes, very few in my denomination still adhere to this ideal).

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Nate
Protestant Reformed Churches in America
Ann Arbor, MI

I believe that this could be categorised under 'course jesting'. Even if it is not it is not fitting. Unwholesome words should not be a part of the Christian's speech.

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We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis

Great post and conversation so far. May I add that our words have great power, affecting others (often in ways we do not intend) and ourselves. Any comment that trivializes the Word of God (as the "big inning" joke above) has a subtle effect on speaker and hearer. And does it anger you when someone refers to the sovereign God as "the Man upstairs" or "the big guy"? I fear for my own perception of Him, those times when it does not.

To branch off of this a little, I have enjoyed various evangelical satirists' work on the Web and in books (you know the sites: Lark News, to name one of the most well known). These guys often reflect light into dark corners by skewering those conceits and unconscious habits that evangelicals so easily take up. Yet I am careful not to spend too much time with them. Satire often prods me toward cynicism toward the Bride of Christ, and that is a place I do not want to be.

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Aaron Root
RE
Crossroads PCA
Woodbridge VA

I know one person who rarely laughs. He mentions that the only time that the Bible speaks of God laughing is laughing the sinner to scorn, and that Jesus was a man of sorrows.

He has a point, but WOW!, what a downer to be around....there has to be a more balanced and livable attitude than constant dourness.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Here is where wisdom is called for. Scripture does not itemize permissible humor. It assumes that the Christian is mature enough to know what will bring dishonor to God and what will not. It's okay for Christians to have a good belly laugh. The only qualifier would be to make sure your humor is not hurting another person, in bad taste, or clearly outside the bounds of scripture.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Reformed Baptist
Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Visit my BLOG Theology for the Rest of Us

Or what about a name like my last name (Hooker)? Other people make jokes, and I was encouraged to "have fun" with my name.

It's obvious to me now that I overdo the humor with my name (though I'm a little better than I used to be), but whether any is OK or whether I should just politely laugh when others say "you must have fun with your name" or make a little joke about it but not make any of my own is something I struggle to balance.

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Scott - Dallas, Texas - Faith OPC

"It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do." - Edmund Burke

I think that what sets christians apart in a large degree is their use of language- just as Peter said in 1 Peter 1:15 but like as he who called you is holy, be ye yourselves also holy in all manner of living; (ASV)

For christians to use such language, is always inappropriate, observe what Paul says:

Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. (Eph*4:29*NKJ)

However, one does not have to be dour in order to be holy! Even the puritans were lovers of laughter (to the surprise of many.) But, I think it's just hard now a days, the God-fearing man can easily go to the other side also (like myself in the past) and not joke at all! And I'm still trying to learn the balance. Just remember, the scripture states we'll be held accountable for every word we speak.

I enjoyed the note in George Muller's biography by A.T Pierson stating Muller's love of humor- once they were walking and G.M suggested they stop to rest, and as soon as they sat down, he stood up and said "ah, well that was a nice rest, let us be going" 'everyone laughed.' Obviously, the man was so happy in the Lord, and humor is part of that. I think it's just learning to live 'in the joy of the Lord' then words like 'dour' and 'sober' would not seem so intimidating and lifeless. A serious view of life is biblical, the glory of God is at stake! But it doesn't have to be marked with perpetual somberness, rather, perpetual joy and delight in the Lord is the greatest remedy.

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Josh
Reformed - WCF
Clinton, Utah

"My business is to love others and not to seek that others shall love me" // "Redeeming the time, for the days are evil" Eph 5:16

I couldn't agree with you more! I think as believers we should certainly be set apart from the world, and our language and behavior should reflect that! We should be careful of the words we choose, and the jokes we tell. But, I have been around several believers that are so serious and somber all the time and they can be quite depressing! While their motives are good, and they desire to be reverent....I think as believers we should exude the joy of the Lord and the peace that comes from that! We shouldn't act as though it is a burdensome thing to be a Christian, but one of great delight!

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Yvonne
Reformed Presbyterian
Currently seeking a Church

"A man's most glorious actions will at last be found to be but glorious sins, if he hath made himself, and not the glory of God, the end of those actions." -T. Brooks

Many people need to expand their emotional vocabulary.

The team was "creamed" for example, instead of was "murdered".

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Carol
Plant City, Florida


That I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Philippians 3:8,9

http://gettingoffthenicenesstreadmill.blogspot.com/

What if they expand it to "the team was dismembered"? Or "mutilated"?

If those are wrong, what's wrong about them?

In knowing a correct response, one must in the fear of God examine his own heart in the light of God's Word- ask yourself "are my words conforming to the Word of God?" Are the words that I'm speaking "necessary for the edification of those who hear?" Are my words "with grace, seasoned with salt?"

Something we as Americans tend to fall short on is how flippant our words often are, how little we dwell upon what we say- it's a dangerous place to be in! Not so much what we are saying, but, "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" and so, our words are a reflection of what is inside us. Jesus Christ when He was on the earth, if you observe the way He spoke with people it was straight to the heart of the problem, which was the hearts of men. (Samaritan woman, Rich young ruler etc..)

We all need to be sanctified, and we'll never be perfected here before the coming of Christ, but one needs to be always examining the heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? (Jer*17:9*NKJ)

John Owen sums up our problem quite concisely in saying: “The custom of sinning takes away the sense of it, the course of the world takes away the shame of it”

So, the question is, "are my words conforming to this world? Or more to the Word of God?" It really is an examination of one's heart that determines whether the words are wrong or right. Here's a way to help tell the difference, ask yourself "why did I just say that (________) was it in order to impress man?" If so, then you're guilty of the sin of man pleasing, what the puritans referred to it as anyway- simply your affections are more set upon the pleasing of men, then of God... I've been guilty of this, and I'm so ashamed when I catch myself, it can happen even with good words too, not even 'is this word right or wrong?' But through a discerning of the heart you can tell whether what you said was right or wrong. I can't recall the quote, but John Owen said something like "the more sanctified the man, the more he realizes the deceitfulness of his own heart."

We shouldn't fool ourselves, don't be proud or arrogant thinking I can simply abide by list, it goes so deep we can't even see the depths of it. Christ looked at the heart while on earth, and does the same now from heaven.