What's the difference and why?

Here's some scenarios:

• ---A man has a picture of his wife in a bikini from a recent vacation on his wall,
  
• ---A man has a picture of a stranger in a bikini hanging on his wall,
  
• ---A man has a painted picture of a naked women on his wall..but she is Eve and the painting is a Biblical scene,
  
• ---A man has a picture of naked tribal women on his wall related to his anthropological work.
  
• ---A man has a picture of a naked female form on his wall (he is a obgyn and the picture of a graphic description of certain parts).
  
• ---A boy draws grafiti on the wall of a crude, almost stick figure form of a naked female woman.

It appears that the difference is the purpose of the picture. Therefore, National Geographic is a great EDUCATIONAL magazine and graphic prints of OBGYN prints are very useful. What about art showing the beauty of the human form. Can this beauty be shown without sin, since the beauty is the goal and not the eroticism? Can Chrsitians own old works of art like Botticelli?


I need a logical framework to fit this together.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

I actually like Botticelli

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

I have been searching for answers on this issue all my life and have found nothing. Nada. Zilch.

__________________
Chris Stamper
Park Cities PCA
(Dallas, TX)

Similarly, the US Supreme Court has been trying for more than 50 years. The best anybody's come up with, regarding obscenity, is "I know it when I see it."

That and "community standards" which was supposed to be an objective test.

__________________
R.Vic Bottomly
Providence Reformed Baptist Church, Tacoma, WA

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I listened to a sermon in chapel today on pornography and was struck by the lack of attention to Song of Songs and its graphic presentation of female and male sexuality - when do we draw the line in presenting this to our children...our students?

__________________
John
Evangelical Free Church, no offices held
Langhorne, PA

[B]δός δοξαν τῳ θεῳ.[/B]
[B]ιδου ποιω τα εσχατα ως τα πρωτα.
הבל הבלים[/B]

Pornography is any image that arouses lust.

bikini, nude, etc...

__________________
-JD
1Thess5:21
Ordained Deacon, PCA
Serving in the SBC
MS

Team blog: ChristianSkepticism.org | Personal:...a Longmire rambles | facebook

What!?!? I thought Song of Songs was all about trees and fruit and pairs of deer and battlements and boards of cedar.

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C. Gorsuch
Glencullen Baptist
Portland, Oregon

No, the two breasts = the two testaments.

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

(you are on a roll tonight!)

__________________
Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

What if Song of Solomon arouses lust? Or a few verses in Ezekial?



Arouses lust in whom? WHen? I guess that is where community standards or a "common sense" comes in. THe purpose of a thing it seems determines its quality. Thus Botticelli would not be seen the same as a bikini model.

What is the difference in all these items, the Botticeli, the Nat Geo pics of natives, the obgyn textbooks and etc....

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Ahh..., Have you read the Song of Songs? Some pretty strong desire going on there. I may be reading between the lines, but are you suggesting that lust is "strong desire"?

Not disagreeing with you totally, but I would add the caveat that *sinfull* lust is a desire for that which is not *rightfully* yours.

__________________
Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

I have an even better one, but it probably crosses the line (I found it in a commentary, so that makes it okay). I don't fee like getting my study bible out of my car tonight...maybe tomorrow.

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

One old and one new??? Yikes!

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Pragmatic test of ****: Does it leave you feeling guilty? Does your pulse quicken?

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

A common occurrence in California.

__________________

Travis Speegle
Redeemer Presbyterian, PCA (Waco, Tx)
Pacific Cross Roads, PCA (Los Angeles, CA)


"When it comes to trustworthy theologians one can usually honor the rule of thumb that the deader the better."-Dr. John Hannah, DTS (of all places)

__________________
Scott - Dallas, Texas - PCA

"It is not what a lawyer tells me I may do; but what humanity, reason, and justice tell me I ought to do." - Edmund Burke

Regarding Song of Songs... I think it is a fallacy to assume that because it is God's Word it is therefore suitable reading material for everyone. Remember, both the Jewish community AND the early (pre-allegory) church had "restrictions" on who should read it and when.

__________________
Ben
Sanford, NC
TE Ohio Valley Presbytery, PCA

True, we forget the inspired Word is holy and not be approached flippantly or without prayer.

__________________

Travis Speegle
Redeemer Presbyterian, PCA (Waco, Tx)
Pacific Cross Roads, PCA (Los Angeles, CA)


"When it comes to trustworthy theologians one can usually honor the rule of thumb that the deader the better."-Dr. John Hannah, DTS (of all places)

Who would then restrict the Song of Solomon? Would it come packaged in a black wrapper? Who would do the packaging. Rome? To withold any part of inspired Writ seems unjustifiable.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

In all seriousness though, why can't people just admit that the Song of Songs is a book about a husband and wife having sex?

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

I agree with Pergie. Just because the Jewish community and early church placed restrictions on the reading of a book (source?) doesn't mean that they should have. I'd like some elaboration on the point that it's a "fallacy" to claim that God's Word is for everyone. Historical evidence is certainly not the criterion for classifying something as a fallacy.

__________________
Davidius
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

Would it be OK if it didn't? I suspect there are a lot of jaded guiltless consumers out there. One of the more dramatic changes I've seen in my lifetime is the acceptance of **** in the mainstream. It used to be confined to the squalid little theater at the edge of town, or maybe at the sleazy magazine vendor in the big city. Now it is on TV, marketed by big respectable companies. It is remarkable how numb our culture has become to it.

BTW, for me, coffee with a little too much sugar meets your test too.

__________________
R.Vic Bottomly
Providence Reformed Baptist Church, Tacoma, WA

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?