She has a point. If someone breaks in your house and in biblical, godly self-defense you wound them critically but not kill them, they can legitimately sue you for everything you own.

I hate to sound grim and say, "Shoot to kill," but....Again, a lot of this is scenario-sensitive.

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Once a year my stepdad would bring out the rifles and the revolver for cleaning and training. We sat there and he would clean them as he went over the rules for their usage, then we went out back and shot at the cans. We were told that if we shot at a break in, then it had better be a shoot to kill situation.

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JC
URCNA
PA, but homesick for SC

"Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

Whoa, whoa, whoa!

Jacob, you said you would shoot someone (you didn't at first say whether lethally or not) for looting, which most of us take to mean, thievery. Then when people objected, you upped the ante to rape & murder. The Scripture verse reference is only addressing thievery. At night, when it's not clear what the trespasser is after, he's fair game. In daylight when you can see all he wants is the TV, you can't kill him. If he seems to want more, i.e. your wife or daughter's honor or anyone's life, that particular Scripture verse doesn't address that, but others do; you are justified in that case in using whatever force is necessary. Can we stop referring to each other's opinions as "antinomian rubbish"? That doesn't seem calculated to edify. Just my opinion, so shoot me!

__________________
The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Jacob doesn't have the guts to shoot someone.

__________________
Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

[align=center]THE SANCTIFIER
if this can't make you holy, you can't be made holy!



THE DISCIPLER
Guaranteed to bring him to his knees



THE EP HANDGUN
SIG = Shooting to Impart Grace
P245 = Psalm 24:5

When you shoot to impart grace, you can say with assurance: "He shall receive blessing from the LORD, And righteousness from the God of his salvation."

[/align]





[Edited on 10-7-05 by pastorway]

__________________
Pastor Phillip M. Way
[url=http://www.timeintheword.org][color=blue] Maranatha Community Church of Central Texas[/color][/url]
A Reformed Baptist Congregation and Member Church of the
Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals [url=http://www.firefellowship.org][color=red](FIRE)[/color][/url]

Blogging at: [url=http://pastorway.blogspot.com/][color=blue][i]pastorway[/i][/color][/url]
Sermons Online at: [url=http://www.sermonaudio.com/timeintheword][color=blue]TIME in the Word Ministries[/color][/url]

When all souls are saved and all mourners comforted we may venture to discuss recondite theories, but not while graveyards are filling with those who know not God. -- CH Spurgeon

[b]The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
Luke 18:27[/b]

Do this and you will go to jail and he will sue you and win. . . in every state. If you can wound a perp in an obvious non threat to life manner the cours sees it as a situation in which you could have avoided the encounter. Same thing with the old 'I'll fire a warning shot first.' If you have time to fire that shot you have time to flee. (Aside from the fact that both are tactically stupid moves.)

Bottom line: if you must use deadly force whether it be a firearm, knife, or hands it better be deadly in its outcome.

__________________
We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
My Blog - Imprimis

Not to mention shooting a hand or a knee is much harder than hitting center mass. Maybe not for some of you expert marksman here...

__________________
Chris Rhoades -33
Good Shepherd Presbyterian Church (PCA) Nashville, TN-Under Care

Vera theologia non theoretica, sed practica est; Finis siquidem eius agere est hoc est vitam vivere deiformem. - Martin Bucer
""True theology is not theoretical, but practical. The end of it is living, that is to live a godly life."

Ad Hominems.

ps. If one is to watch Gladiator and Return of the Dragon, they would consider it very good movies.

When a money grubing amoral slave owner and gladiator businessman says the following line

"Ultimately, we are all dead men. Sadly, we cannot change that. But we can decide how to end so we are remembered as men"

You know that movie is worth watching.

[Edited on 10-7-2005 by Slippery]

__________________
~Keon Garraway~ Brooklyn, NY Member of Franklin Square OPC

Love for God demonstrated by the love for our children in giving them a God centered education is the only hope for our country. by David Morrow
Pslam 71:20 [Thou], which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

Maximus perfectly codified, "Preemptive defense"

yeah, I think he is too much of an intellectual. Maybe a politician, but he ain't no John Braddock a la Chuck Norris in Missing in Action More like Cicero, but a Christian Reformed version

[Edited on 10-7-2005 by Slippery]

Meg:

Not trying to offend or be condescending at all.
If Chesterton or Lewis were to use the phrase "antinomian rubbish"? we would think it to be an exhortation mingled with jest. My intent is not to mock the individual, but the idea. I certainly doubt anyone would hesitate to criticize Arminianism or Pelagianism with much harsher verbage. The assault on Gods holy, perfect law is no less dangerous. After all, as believers, it is the very law He has said to write onto our hearts.


Keon:

I love Gladiator. Just giving you a hard time.

[Edited on 10-7-2005 by Saiph]

__________________
Misery induces despair, pride induces presumption. The Incarnation shows man the
greatness of his misery by the greatness of the remedy which he required.
~ Pascal, Pensees 526

Find where I said "antinomian rubbish".
I upped the ante for a reason. The "looting" that happened around the Superdome was in the context of killing and raping. In short, the looters (or that mentality) did not stop at looting.

Furthermore, I will keep playing my trump card (Exodus 22).

If you (generic you) break into my house I will assume the worst and will shoot to kill. I do not know that you only intend to help yourself to my property. I will assume that you are going for blood and I will respond accordingly.

Dude, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just pulling your leg. I am fully for the protection of one's domain. The very physiological processes that occur in the body when danger is around (adrenaline etc), shows that self defence and self preservation is valid, and it is morely so valid when one has to protect their family.

But as I said on a previous thread, gun control is not synonymous with gun prohibition. I just don't want the purchase of a gun to be easy as the purchasing of a bigmac, niether do I want AK 47s and other high powered firearms around the place. That's overkill to me.

I was going to note the ad hominem argument but you beat me to it. You have to admit, though, that the avatar and signature line you have chosen says something about your mindset.

And perhaps the movies are worth watching, I don't know. All I know is that my (24 year old) son watches a lot of movies, many of them with a violent nature, and it is pretty easy to see his thinking influenced by what he watches.

The whole world is watching us closely to see how we behave and how we react to what it throws at us.

__________________
Gerry Winebrenner
member Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Janesville WI

Psalm 95:6-7
Oh come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the LORD, our Maker!
For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand.

An armed citizenry is the best deterrent to a despotic government. When congress enacts gun control laws on the police and the military is when I will feel safe with gun conrol laws on the people.

__________________
*Peter Gray* Elkins Park RPCNA

"Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. " Mk 9:24
"The greatest thing we can desire, next to the glory of God, is our own salvation; and the sweetest thing we can desire is the assurance of our salvation. In this life we cannot get higher than to be assured of that which in the next life is to be enjoyed. All saints shall enjoy a heaven when they leave this earth; some saints enjoy a heaven while they are here on earth." Joseph Caryl

People,
Look at the picture closely. It can't by definition be vigilantism. Vigilantism (and there are much worse things in the world) goes OUT to look for bad guys on arbitrary and usually trumped up charges. These people are staying IN on the DEFENSIVE against internal terrorists.
So for now on, I just ignore vigilante charges.

I know you personally! The gun means nothing.

The US government is the biggest vigilante of all. The magistrate is to use the sword as the servant of God, if he fails to he uses the sword in vain.

I thought Gladiator was pretty good.I still didn`t get how it won best actor or picture.I thought Patriot was a much better movie and Mel Gibson did better acting than even Braveheart.Alas,politics held it down.I don`t think they nominated it for anything.

Let me say again.It was a good movie.I just thought it didn`t deserve the academy awards.

[Edited on 10-7-2005 by Average Joey]

[Edited on 10-7-2005 by Average Joey]

__________________
Joe Burgess
Grace Bible Church - http://www.gracemessenger.com/
Olive Branch,MS

"Eighty and six years have I served Him, and He never did me any injury: how then can I blaspheme my King and my Saviour?" - St. Polycarp

Bring it, hoss!

Hey, I got my gun on campus, where's yours?

You'll need it.

I made a conscious decision not to bring my gun. I don't have a sidearm (which would be more ideal for the situation). I am debating on bringing my shotgun back.

[Edited on 10--7-05 by Draught Horse]