Your Love is Extravagant and Song of Songs? No-EPers, please - Page 2

toddpedlar · #41 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

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Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Not sure I follow 100% - contextualize, just a bit, for a weaker brother.

Just curious what your criteria are (I'm no EP'er either) for appropriate vs. not appropriate scripture allusions and such. Since you're appealing to the propriety of singing Biblical sentiments, (with the clear implication being that since the song you've chosen sounds *somewhat* like *some* of the things said in the Song of Solomon, it must be valid for worship song) I wonder what your limits are?

My limits are anything not contributing to the glory of God, thus my seeking godly counsel

- as I said earlier, my second impression of the song was that it may be too evocative - I will admit that my impressions have been somewhat confirmed, but as you know, my brother, I am inclined to test everything so I can keep all the good God offers for His glory and contributes to the edification of his sheep.

I just thought it interesting that you were appealing to the fact that the sentiments in the song you posted sound somewhat like themes from the Song of Solomon in your defense of using that song in worship.

So I'm wondering (perhaps this is a place for a different thread) why those who disagree with the singing of the imprecatory psalms think one ought not to sing those in worship...

armourbearer · #42 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 07:38 PM

What does being EP have to do with critiquing the theological message of a song? Nothing. As a moderator I deem it inappropriate to exclude EPers from contributing to such threads.

armourbearer · #43 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 07:39 PM

Concerning the content of the song -- if one looks up what "extravagant" means in a dictionary, it becomes obvious that it is not an appropriate word to describe God's love. "Immoderate; exceeding the bounds of reason; exorbitant; wasteful." Poetic license does not permit one to desecrate the holy love of God.

"Friendship" with God in the Bible is not the "mateship" of the modern term. It is not "intimate." It is aligning oneself to the cause of God and truth. Christ said, "Ye are my friends, IF..."

And the song goes downhill from there.

panta dokimazete · #44 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 07:41 PM

Because the EPer will assume apriori no potential worship merit in any non-Psalmic song.

JBaldwin · #45 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

Quote:

Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Not sure I follow 100% - contextualize, just a bit, for a weaker brother.

Just curious what your criteria are (I'm no EP'er either) for appropriate vs. not appropriate scripture allusions and such. Since you're appealing to the propriety of singing Biblical sentiments, (with the clear implication being that since the song you've chosen sounds *somewhat* like *some* of the things said in the Song of Solomon, it must be valid for worship song) I wonder what your limits are?

My limits are anything not contributing to the glory of God, thus my seeking godly counsel

- as I said earlier, my second impression of the song was that it may be too evocative - I will admit that my impressions have been somewhat confirmed, but as you know, my brother, I am inclined to test everything so I can keep all the good God offers for His glory and contributes to the edification of his sheep.

I think the song is too evocative for public worship as well.

toddpedlar · #46 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Because the EPer will assume apriori no potential worship merit in any non-Psalmic song.

Not particularly fair, JD. The EPer might find that the words appropriately praise God, and might in fact find much merit in the words. For the EPer, non-inclusion in the Psalter is the ONLY criterion by which a song is judged with regard to worthiness for use in corporate worship.

However, EPers would have MUCH to critique, and much to contribute. I, for one, would very much like to hear their opinion on the matter. The Psalter isn't for them just "the only songbook" as a wooden thing - but it is also meet for worship in content, form and substance. There is much they might have to say in discussing this song.

armourbearer · #47 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Because the EPer will assume apriori no potential worship merit in any non-Psalmic song.

As David pointed out, an EPer can see merit in non-Psalmic songs outside of stated worship; and as he also noted, if a song is not appropriate outside of worship contexts it certainly should not be included within it.

But this ruling is not up for discussion. Your excluding EPers has been ruled out of order. If you insist on excluding them we will have to close down the thread.

North Jersey Baptist · #48 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

Quote:

Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Because the EPer will assume apriori no potential worship merit in any non-Psalmic song.

Not particularly fair, JD. The EPer might find that the words appropriately praise God, and might in fact find much merit in the words. For the EPer, non-inclusion in the Psalter is the ONLY criterion by which a song is judged with regard to worthiness for use in corporate worship.

However, EPers would have MUCH to critique, and much to contribute. I, for one, would very much like to hear their opinion on the matter. The Psalter isn't for them just "the only songbook" as a wooden thing - but it is also meet for worship in content, form and substance. There is much they might have to say in discussing this song.

Todd, absolutely! The same could be said for other issues, even baptism. I have learned so much from the paedo position, even though I am not swayed to change my position. If you close down perspective you lose the same.

panta dokimazete · #49 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

I just thought it interesting that you were appealing to the fact that the sentiments in the song you posted sound somewhat like themes from the Song of Solomon in your defense of using that song in worship.

potentially using - big difference - and I thought it might be useful to explore some surrounding rationale - particularly from the non-EPers (hint, hint, again...

) - I think it has been/is a good and useful discussion.

panta dokimazete · #50 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

Quote:

Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Because the EPer will assume apriori no potential worship merit in any non-Psalmic song.

Not particularly fair, JD. The EPer might find that the words appropriately praise God, and might in fact find much merit in the words. For the EPer, non-inclusion in the Psalter is the ONLY criterion by which a song is judged with regard to worthiness for use in corporate worship.

However, EPers would have MUCH to critique, and much to contribute. I, for one, would very much like to hear their opinion on the matter. The Psalter isn't for them just "the only songbook" as a wooden thing - but it is also meet for worship in content, form and substance. There is much they might have to say in discussing this song.

While I appreciate the rationale and its merit - I was simply following a practice I have seen utilized several times before on the board to avoid diverging a subject about which some specific idea with a specific group in mind could be discussed. If this practice is officially discouraged, as I see it has, I certainly apologize to all concerned and will discontinue its utilization.

toddpedlar · #51 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

Quote:

Originally Posted by panta dokimazete

Because the EPer will assume apriori no potential worship merit in any non-Psalmic song.

Not particularly fair, JD. The EPer might find that the words appropriately praise God, and might in fact find much merit in the words. For the EPer, non-inclusion in the Psalter is the ONLY criterion by which a song is judged with regard to worthiness for use in corporate worship.

However, EPers would have MUCH to critique, and much to contribute. I, for one, would very much like to hear their opinion on the matter. The Psalter isn't for them just "the only songbook" as a wooden thing - but it is also meet for worship in content, form and substance. There is much they might have to say in discussing this song.

While I appreciate the rationale and its merit - I was simply following a practice I have seen utilized several times before on the board to avoid diverging a subject about which some specific idea with a specific group in mind could be discussed. If this practice is officially discouraged, as I see it has, I certainly apologize to all concerned and will discontinue its utilization.

You can exercise the same desire by asking that the song you are proposing be evaluated not on "EP vs non-EP" terms. To ask that specific people not post at all is out of bounds.

panta dokimazete · #52 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 08:10 PM

As a matter of fact, guys - I can take a (not so subtle) hint - my (percieved) kind is not welcome here, so I will scoot - truly better things to do than beat my head against this.

Goodbye, God-bless and Soli Deo Gloria.

Barnpreacher · #53 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 08:24 PM

JD,

I hope that you're simply talking about bowing out of only this thread and not the Puritan Board completely.

I want you to know many of your posts have been a blessing to me and to others as well I'm sure. So, there's no need to leave the PB over one thread. Just take a deep breath, gather your thoughts and come back later. I know at times I have struggled with how overwhelming the strong and differing personalities can be on the PB, but for me it continues to be a place where I can learn.

Hang in there, bro. Don't go anywhere.

Semper Fidelis · #54 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 09:13 PM

Something that goes against my grain is to play a Sporting Event and then start trying to tell the Refs how to call the game.

The title of the thread is inappropriate from the beginning. It assumes that EP'ers could not evaluate the theological content of the song wheter or not they agreed with its appropriateness for worship. It's like if I started a thread on the song "In the Garden" and then told all the non-EP'ers that their comments on the "Jesus is my Boyfriend" imagery is banned from discussion.

Now, if I were to do that, I would certainly have to have some authority on this board to do so. I do but it would be an abuse of my authority. A user may request the Moderators to help him keep the discussion focused on the topic but he may not direct their efforts. He is certainly in no position to argue the point ad naseum with them.

Honestly, I can't get the picture out of my mind of an undisciplined athlete who starts cussing at the Refs. Zero sympathy from my end.

A5pointer · #55 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 09:25 PM

Coming in late, have no idea what the controversy is but I have a buddy who hates "In the Garden". He is not EP.

Barnpreacher · #56 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 09:32 PM

I would still hate to see the man leave over this one incident. I must confess that I didn't agree with him excluding EP folk either, but I just can't imagine he did it in spite.

So, he was shown he was wrong and hopefully he can admit to it even if he didn't have the wrong intentions. Then he can continue to contribute to a place where we all learn how to grow together in the Lord.

Semper Fidelis · #57 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 09:35 PM

Ryan,

We'll see. This has just become a pattern lately for some to pretend as if Moderators have no authority here and then trashing the board when they exercise it.

Barnpreacher · #58 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper Fidelis

Ryan,

We'll see. This has just become a pattern lately for some to pretend as if Moderators have no authority here and then trashing the board when they exercise it.

Gotcha, Rich.