Split Thread: Can Musical Notes, Arrangements, and Beats Be Inherently Evil?

[Grymir]

JBaldwin, you are soooo right. There is alot of junk that we should not listen to outside of church.

Rap music and Contemorary Christian Music are two that come to mind. I'm serious too. Rap music promotes evil. The beat used is the same as primitive tribal people to induce altered states of consiousness. CCM music glorifies man so much, it makes the disco songs downright righteous!

[panta dokimazete]

How would the medium affect the appropriateness? (I seem to be using that word alot, lately!)

I believe that even some instrumental music may not be appropriate for a believer.

And that may indeed be the subject of another thread.

[Gloria]

Originally Posted by Grymir

JBaldwin, you are soooo right. There is alot of junk that we should not listen to outside of church.

Rap music and Contemorary Christian Music are two that come to mind. I'm serious too. Rap music promotes evil. The beat used is the same as primitive tribal people to induce altered states of consiousness. CCM music glorifies man so much, it makes the disco songs downright righteous!

*chuckles*

[panta dokimazete]

The beat used is the same as primitive tribal people to induce altered states of consiousness.

Sorry, but this is a strawman...and a weak one a that - can you be driven into an altered state of conciousness by a mere beat? There is no evidence that beat alone can force mental states. (Can certainly influence the experience, but not directly cause it.)

I think the state of the mind, heart and soul are much more likely to be the source of the problem than the circumstance.

[blhowes]

Originally Posted by Grymir

Rap music and Contemorary Christian Music are two that come to mind. I'm serious too. Rap music promotes evil. The beat used is the same as primitive tribal people to induce altered states of consiousness.

The beat promotes evil?

[Grymir]

It's not a strawman. And when combined with the lyrics that are used, it only compounds the evil. The beat of the music increases the heart beat and affects areas of the brain and becomes addictive. And affects a person like a drug. And they need more and more. Even the praise music used in contemporary worship does the same thing. Exactly the same thing, with lyrics repeated over and over and over. Just doing that alone will do the trick.

This has to do with why reading is so much different than watching T.V. Reading engages the brain. T.V. and music bypass the judgement center of the brain and just gets absorbed.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Grymir

The beat of the music increases the heart beat and affects areas of the brain and becomes addictive. And affects a person like a drug. And they need more and more.

Great anecdotal "evidence." Care to supply Scripture where a particular musical not, arrangement, or beat (divorced from lyrical content, personal sinful nostalgia, etc.) is inherently and automatically evil to all individuals everywhere, in every circumstance, without exception?

Mrs. Baldwin, if I'm sidetracking the thread, let me know. I'll delete my post.

[panta dokimazete]

Please point to some validated research to support your initial assertion. Otherwise it is just that - a flawed premise.

Keep in mind that I am not disagreeing that overexposure to combining multiple elements of music may be deleterious to one's mental and emotional health - I am asking you to clarify that the one element - beat - can induce altered states of consciousness.

[Sonoftheday]

Sorry, but this is a strawman...and a weak one a that - can you be driven into an altered state of conciousness by a mere beat? There is no evidence that beat alone can force mental states. (Can certainly influence the experience, but not directly cause it.)

I think the state of the mind, heart and soul are much more likely to be the source of the problem than the circumstance.

I could not defend the statement made about primitive tribes, But there is certainly something blatantly sensual/sexual contained in the rythm of much of the Rap/Hip Hop music. Also music can have definite mood altering effects if not mind altering effects. There have been many times before I cleansed my musical collection that I would put in a certain CD only to find myself unexplicably angery, or arroused.

It is because of these experiences in my own life I would agree totally with what you said.

I believe that even some instrumental music may not be appropriate for a believer.

Christians should be cautious as to the beat of the music and the way it effects thier mood whether or not the lyrics are explicitly sinful.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Sonoftheday

Christians should be cautious as to the beat of the music and the way it effects thier mood whether or not the lyrics are explicitly sinful.

This is certainly true on an individual level. However, it becomes a problem when it is pushed upon all Christians without exception. Why? Because Scripture nowhere substantiates such an inherent evil with a particular musical note, beat, or arrangement (again, divorced from lyrical content, sinful nostalgia, etc.). There are certainly folks who should stay away from certain types of music. But they may not push that on all others without exception.

Just as many folks should steer clear of alcohol consumption, but shouldn't push it on others.

[panta dokimazete]

I am skeptical that mere beat - a rhythmic combination of percussion and tempo - can somehow contain/supply some inherent evil - please provide Scriptural or other evidental support for this assertion.

Psalm 68:24-26
24They have seen Your procession, O God,
The procession of my God, my King, into the sanctuary.
25The singers went on, the musicians after them,
In the midst of the maidens beating tambourines.
26Bless God in the congregations,
Even the LORD, you who are of the fountain of Israel.

[panta dokimazete]

I see Josh and I are parallel posting

[py3ak]

In certain circumstances it is undeniable that a beat affects you. One time my wife and I got on a bus in Mexico, and had to get off almost immediately. The music was turned up so loudly that we could feel our hearts changing to pound with the rhythm of the beat, and that was so fast and hard that Heidi was made physically ill, and if we'd stuck around a few minutes longer I would have been as well. Now obviously that may be an extreme circumstance: but when a beat is loud enough, it certainly does affect your heartbeat, and thus your physical condition.

[JBaldwin]

Originally Posted by py3ak

In certain circumstances it is undeniable that a beat affects you. One time my wife and I got on a bus in Mexico, and had to get off almost immediately. The music was turned up so loudly that we could feel our hearts changing to pound with the rhythm of the beat, and that was so fast and hard that Heidi was made physically ill, and if we'd stuck around a few minutes longer I would have been as well. Now obviously that may be an extreme circumstance: but when a beat is loud enough, it certainly does affect your heartbeat, and thus your physical condition.

Even though this is off topci, I find this interesting because I have a student who is doing research for a science project on the way music and beat impacts the body and the brain. So far, his research strongly supports the idea that music has a profound impact on heart rate and mood. This is not really new information though since Musak (the elevator music people) have been making a fortune supplying grocery and department stores with music to boost sales.

[Grymir]

To all concerned, there is no direct "thou shall not" in the Bible per se, but alot of allusions, ie importing foreign customs and the ways of the heathens.

Joshua, I didn't separate Rap lyrics from the music when I called it evil. It is. And my statement isn't pushing anything on anybody. Sinful nostalgia?? I think not. Rap music was not my drug of choice. In fact, that is why I was lead to my conclusions. When I was studying psychology in school I thought that only drugs could induce such behaviors. But when I read up on the Aztec and Mayan temple rituals, I had to change my mind. They did amazing things. And got others to do it to.

Panta, here's one study - Title here!

There are many more. Google 'rhythm induced states of consciousness' and you'll have far more than is needed to justify my position. Many things besides music can do it. Starvation, diet, sexual activity, breathing techniques, sensory depravation, sensory overload, dancing. Here's another study - http://www.mp.uni-tuebingen.de/mp/fi...l-2005-ASC.pdf

My statements still stand.

[panta dokimazete]

Last post on this off-topic subject - no one has challenged the fact that beat, combined with other elements, may have a physiological/psychological effect on some peoples moods - I am challenging the assertion that beat alone can send someone into a state of altered consciousness on the level a psychotropic substance can.

[Grymir]

VirginiaHuguenot, now I know why you 'd this thread.

[panta dokimazete]

Mods - if this continues, I'd request we extract this discussion into another thread.

[Grymir]

"I am challenging the assertion that beat alone can send someone into a state of altered consciousness on the level a psychotropic substance can." You misquote and misrepresent what I said. I just asserted that it can put someone into an altered state of consciousness.

I love threads like this. Training for the real world.