What is the usefulness of philosophy to the study of theology? I was thinking that philosophy can help one find the presuppositions behind an idea or draw out the implications of an idea. Do you have any thoughts on this?

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Curt Hayashida
member, Community Bible Church (Non-denominational)
Vallejo, CA

I just ordered Reasons for Faith: Philosophy in the Service of Theology. It'll be here in a couple of days . Anyway, it may answer your questions

Reasons for Faith: Philosophy in the Service of Theology :: Scott K. Oliphint :: Contemporary Authors :: Modern Authors :: Monergism Books :: Reformed Books and Resources for Christians

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Jonathan
College Student
Grace Family Fellowship {SBC}
Kentucky

... yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

1 Corinthians 8:6

In fact, I am of the opinion that this book of Oliphint's is the best single work directly on the topic that can help we Reformed understand this question.

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Patrick
Covenant (OPC), Brighton, MI

Here are some useful words from Professor Michael Sudduth:

“Taking the Fabric to the Cleaners”

It is my opinion that Christians need WAY more philosophical training, especially, critical thinking and logic.

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^Brian Lanier^
OPC
Philosophy, SFSU
Main Area of Interest: Religious Epistemology

Theology is the queen of the sciences, and philosophy her handmaiden. From philosophy comes the sciences. (Biology, Chemistry, Earth Sciences, Physics, Psychology)

The scientists of today have it backwards. They work from the sciences to philosophy to theology. That causes all kinds of problems. Take evolution for example. The questions of man's origins is a question of history, not science. Do we move from the particulars to the universals? Or do we move from the universals to the particulars? These are some of the questions that philosphy answers.

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Timothy Johnson
First United Presbyterian of Moline
PCUSA (Yea, I know)
Theology/Philosophy Sunday School Teacher
Davenport, IA

[QUOTE=Grymir;577421]
Take evolution for example. The questions of man's origins is a question of history, not science.QUOTE]

This seems false. Why can't it be both?

[quote=BrianLanier;577432]I would say because it cannot be put in a test tube, analyzed, reproduced etc.

I would also feel more comfortable saying that it is a question of philosophy not a question of science.

CT

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Hermonta Godwin
Christ The King PCA
Raleigh, NC

[quote=ChristianTrader;577444]To some extent, I agree with you. But only insofar as as it is not a question of science, in some sense, just as much it is not a question of philosophy, again, in some sense. It seems rather a mixutre of the two. Philosophy of science seems to be very relevant here!

BTW, I know your interested in the philosophy of science--that is, if I remember correctly. We just hosted a nice philosophy of science workshop, called "The Experimental Side of Modeling", at my school. Bas van Frassenn (who also teaches there) along with Nancy Cartwright, Michael Weisberg, and Joseph Rouse, who gave a fansinating paper, called "Articulating the World: Toward a New Scientic Image". It was a great workshop. I think they are working on the video, so it might be available in the near future, if you're interested.

Aside from any particular philosophical construct, I think that the most basic benefit of philosophical training is the ability to think in terms of implication. Most people say all kinds of things without taking a moment to think of what follows naturally from what they're saying.

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Davidius
Husband of Emily
Member of All Saints Anglican Church - Chapel Hill (AMiA / Anglican Church of North America)
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German and Classics

Philosophy is very important when studying scripture, the loss of philosophy in Bible study is one of the main reasons why Arminians and the like who are actually saved are blinded to what the Bible actually says, instead of studying the bible they just "read" it, there is no logical conclusions or consistancy between verses

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~ Charles Stephen Barribeau ~
Christ Presbyterian Church , OPC (They sing alot of Psalms!)
Original Westminster Standards (I need to study more...)
The Puritans were best! Also... I NEED TO READ MORE!!!
Philipians1:29(KJV) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Janesville, Wisconsin (In the fellowship of Bob Vigneault and Matt+Megan Meisberger)

The only problem with this is the fact that the majority of philosophically trained Christians (professional philosophers of religion) are *not* reformed with respect to salvation.

Which implies that because one is a professional does not imply that one does good work in all areas.

CT

I thought Arminians were blinded by the devil and/or their depravity...

You be right yo, thats why we have guns

I guess I should clarify, the church needs Van Til or even Gordon Clark thinking

To Jonathan, yes they are, but a cause has means, you know what I means? Lol....sorry, that was lame

I would recommend Diogenes Allen's "Philosophy for Studying Theology"

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Jeremy Ellis
Member of the Village Church of Bartlett
Bartlett, IL

My experience has been ministers who have strong philosophical minds and enjoy the study of philosophy make poor preachers.

They tend to speak over the heads of most people, and all the children, they are often less practical, applicatory and experiential and stay up in the clouds of hypothetical and abstract doctrinal and apologetic.

Were one to be able to control this passion and ground oneself during thr sermon I think it has some use and benefit.

But I do not need to know all of the errors and proof for them of all of the philosophers for the last 4000 years to advance my walk with Christ.

1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. NKJV

1 Cor 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being.
NKJV

Just the opinion of some people in the pew. Not saying it is right. Don't need to be corrected or philosophized. Just sharing what many express and why they leave churches if it may be of help to anyone reading.
Because most people are intimidated by these men and will not speak up to tell them this oversight they may be blind to.
God has not made us all philosophical minded or highly intellectual.
So preach as to be understood by these sheep:
1 Cor 1:26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. NKJV

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DonP

Logic is probably one of the most important tools when studying scripture as several of our members have mentioned here already. There is a lot of logical conclusions that occur from making several assertions. Good thinking must always be inline with good exegesis. Not to mention the study of semantics will help out anyone in any field.

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Julio Perez
Visting Branch of Hope OPC hoping this will be my home church.....


“No…we are all priests. Your vocation and your contentment in your vocation should not be dependent upon your being in vocational ministry or in being a figure of public acclaim. If God wills that fine…if He does not do that, you ought to still do what he has granted you to do to the glory of God.”

-Martin Luther

Such as philosopher-ministers like Jonathan Edwards, Augustine, Van Til, even Calvin? I'm assuming you mean ministers alive today, in which case I would say most of the problems of bad preaching today seem to have less to do with being philosophically inclined, more to do with being theological inept and a-literate. See Professor Clark's recent comments on that note: Why Johnny Can’t Preach (3) Heidelblog

I completely agree. Most of the "bad teaching" isn't based on over intellectualism but because of lazyness and ignorance. The "preachers" that tend to have megachurches are those that seem more like life coaches more than ministers of God works. In order to articulate God's work precision is essential, peoples attention span now a days is short they rather have someone tell them that God wants them to have a nice car and a big house rather than to spend 3 hours trying to figure out theological systems.

[quote=ChristianTrader;577444]Do a little more study of Intelligent Design and you will see science has a far more intelligent answer than asking, Why am I Here? Or, Am I Here?

We can never reason ourselves to God, or truth. It is only by Grace we can know God.
Therefore the premise of philosophy or flawed. They can't know truth. They will always be limited by their fallen nature which impairs the mind and the deception of the devil on top of it.

Only a Christian philosopher has any chance of meaningful truth.

Whereas 2+ 3 = 5 works for unregenerate and regenerate alike.

Darwinism is a philosophy or a religion, it hasn't been science for 100 years and has been foolish for 50 years.

and in the last 5-10 years the advances in sciences like biochemistry, and glycobiology have pretty well proven we could not have evolved from monkeys and that there has to be intelligent design.

But most people do not know enough biochemistry to know this.

So please be careful to elevate philosophy above other fields of study just because you like it or have knowledge of its value. It may just be a bias if you do not have a similar experience with advanced recent biochem and glycobiology.

As for logic and reason, I wholeheartedly agree it would be so valuable since it is not taught in most schools I would like to see it taught in Sunday School along with some basic hermeneutics.

What do you mean "we can never reason ourselves . . . to truth"? And do you mean that non-Christians cannot know any truths, or any truths about God? Can't non-Christians know that if P, then Q--P--therefore, Q? Can't they know many truths of mathematics, physics, science?

In some sense, for the Christian, philosophy is closer to theology than any other discipline. E.g., for the Christian, metaphysics at bottom is theology proper and the doctrine of creation. Epistemology is constituted by our doctrines of revelation and illumination. Ethics is, well, that one should be obvious.
And by the way, biochemistry cannot *prove* intelligent design. That requires philosophical arguments as well. Biochemistry makes and rests on philosophical assumptions; philosophy does not rest on assumptions of biochemistry.