Which one?
Why?
My reading of the Puritans and Reformers seem to indicate a bipartite consensus. Does WCF IV.2 necessarily teach man is a bipartite creature? Are there any notable tripartite advocates during the reformation era?
Which one?
Why?
My reading of the Puritans and Reformers seem to indicate a bipartite consensus. Does WCF IV.2 necessarily teach man is a bipartite creature? Are there any notable tripartite advocates during the reformation era?
Last edited by CDM; 02-23-2009 at 09:28 PM.
Chris M.
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte (PRC)
Student, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary
SC
...hope is nothing but the nourishment and strength of faith.
~ Calvin's Institutes III.ii.43
natural/spiritual - bipartite
-----Added 2/23/2009 at 03:20:32 EST-----
Just to muddy the water - one might make the case that the regenerate are tripartite![]()
Last edited by panta dokimazete; 02-23-2009 at 02:45 PM.
-JD
"The majority of modern evangelical scholars prefer the dichotomous view of the human person . . . That is, . . . no real ontological distinction between soul and spirit."
R.E. Olson, The Westminster Handbook to Evangelical Theology, p. 205.
Jim
1689 LBCF
Independent Bible Church
North Texas, USA
CDM (02-23-2009), KMK (02-23-2009), panta dokimazete (02-23-2009), Pergamum (02-23-2009)
Ok, well I might really not understand this so well, but I said tri because we are mind, body and spirit. I voted before reading what the reformers said, which leads me to think I should read more about it.
sarah
providence (Only Perfect Church)
wi coldest snowiest state in the union
RN working towards photographer
It’s a very interesting question, so there is only a difference in perception, is it a synonym?
I know both words soul and spirit are often interchangeable
But these passages always make me wonder about it.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.1 Thessalonians 5:23
Any thoughts on these?
César Proença
there is no will nor running by which we can prepare the way for our salvation, it is wholly of the Divine Mercy Jean Calvin Institutes II . V. 17
Reformed Churches in The Netherlands (liberated) http://www.gkv.nl/main.asp?intTreeviewID=954
Igreja Reformada em Massamá Portugal http://www.igrejareformada.pt
Cesar, you give the primary proof text for those who hold to a Trichotomous view of man in biblical anthropology, which can be found in Tertullian for example. However, I believe the dichotomous view has carried the day.
Jim
1689 LBCF
Independent Bible Church
North Texas, USA
discipulo (02-23-2009)
a view...
for bitartite...
http://twitpic.com/1nkw7 (image keeps disappearing...)
![]()
Last edited by panta dokimazete; 02-23-2009 at 02:56 PM.
-JD
César Proença
there is no will nor running by which we can prepare the way for our salvation, it is wholly of the Divine Mercy Jean Calvin Institutes II . V. 17
Reformed Churches in The Netherlands (liberated) http://www.gkv.nl/main.asp?intTreeviewID=954
Igreja Reformada em Massamá Portugal http://www.igrejareformada.pt
Calvin:
Institutes of the Christian Religion I:XV.2Moreover, there can be no question that man consists of a body and a soul; meaning by soul, an immortal though created essence, which is his nobler part. Sometimes he is called a spirit. But though the two terms, while they are used together differ in their meaning, still, when spirit is used by itself it is equivalent to soul, as when Solomon speaking of death says, that the spirit returns to God who gave it, (Ecc 12: 7) And Christ, in commending his spirit to the Father, and Stephen his to Christ, simply mean, that when the soul is freed from the prison-house of the body, God becomes its perpetual keeper.
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Sterling Harmon
Presbyterian Church of Coventry (PCA)
Coventry, CT
Deacon
________________
"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
--John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.
"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
--Martin Luther, Table Talk
Interim Pulpit Supply of New England
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Ask Mr. Religion (02-24-2009), Dearly Bought (02-23-2009), discipulo (02-23-2009), Jesus is my friend (02-23-2009), KMK (02-23-2009), PresbyDane (02-24-2009)
RC Sproul put me into the Bipartite camp!!!![]()
etexas, , Servant Of Christ, Saint Mary Magdalene.
For what it is worth, Douglas Kelly agrees with Calvin as well. (I was just listening to his lecture on this subject the other day.)
http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/
"Preparing a sermon is like cooking a meal. You need pots and pans and utensils, but you don't bring them out to the table where people are eating." Derek Thomas
Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
If Sproul is Bipartite that settles it for me, I was going that way, but that settled it![]()
Martin - Reformed
Husband to the most godly, honorable and loyal wife Line
Searching for a Church
Webpage www.5solas.dk
Free Online Reformed Seminary - http://www.tnars.net
Soli Deo Gloria
I've held to the bipartite view ever since I joined a reformed church in the mid 90's. It was explained to me by the pastor that the tripartite view is inconsistent with reformed theology and is typically taken by Semi-Pelagians who believe that while the spirit of man is dead in trespasses and sins because of Adam, the soul is still reachable because it is the center of the intellect and the emotions.
I've always associated tripartism (?) with pop psychology-infused evangelicalism a la Minirth and Meyer, Larry Crab, James Dobson, etc.
I've also heard it compared with the Trinity and our being made (tripartite) in God's Image - very dangerous ground.
However, what's interesting is, we are acquainted with a brother (a Five Point Calvinist) who is not sure whether or not we are bipartite or tripartite and doesn't think we can know for sure this side of heaven. And I know for a fact that he does not hold to any of the things I elaborated on.
Just a side note - another thing that scared me away from tripartism is Benny Hinn's using it to explain his (later recanted I believe) 9 persons in the Trinity doctrine.
Toni Cunningham, Wife of Bill (Theognome)
Parkwoods OPC, Overland Park KS
"Vice is a monster of so frightful mien, As, to be hated, needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace." ~ Alexander Pope
Theognome (02-24-2009)
Discussion of the Trichotomous vs Dichotomous views of man's constitutional nature is addressed in Robert Reymond, Chas. Hodge, Louis Berkhof, and any decent Systematic Theology. I like Louis Berkhof's discussion (Sys. Theol. p. 191-196). It gives a good historical overview with pros and cons. Reymond contends that the Reformation Creeds all adopt a dichotomous view of man. He references the WCF 32.1 in support.
Jim
1689 LBCF
Independent Bible Church
North Texas, USA
CDM (02-23-2009)
I thought that only fringe dispy's held to the tri- view.
Kevin Rogers, Licentiate
Ruling Elder
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB
In Collected Writings of John Murray vol II, chapter 2, The Nature of Man, he affirms man is dichotomy (bipartite). In chapter 3, Trichotomy he traces out this view from history up to the present. He even provides hybrid examples but concludes they can still be classified in one of the two camps.
It is well worth the read.![]()
Chris M.
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte (PRC)
Student, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary
SC
...hope is nothing but the nourishment and strength of faith.
~ Calvin's Institutes III.ii.43
Jimmy the Greek (02-24-2009), Kevin (02-23-2009)
Jacob Mearse
Reformation Orthodox Presbyterian Church
Olympia, WA
Student, Reformed Theological Seminary (Virtual)
Lieutenant, U.S. Navy
Husband to April; Daddy to Wesley, Cyrus, FaithMarie and SarahAnn.
Bipartite-And happy about it
Thanks for the info. I've got Murray's writings and will look into it. The bi/tri controversy has been something I've really gotten interested in the past few months, but I'm not at all familiar with the various points of vew. I trust Murray and will definitely look into his view and comments.
Kevin Guillory
Pastor
Redeemer Christian Congregation
Baltimore, MD
I don't interpret Scripture. Scripture
interprets itself. And in the process ...
Scripture interprets me!
Chris M.
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte (PRC)
Student, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary
SC
...hope is nothing but the nourishment and strength of faith.
~ Calvin's Institutes III.ii.43
Where's unipartite? Or is that considered heretical?
Chris M.
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte (PRC)
Student, Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary
SC
...hope is nothing but the nourishment and strength of faith.
~ Calvin's Institutes III.ii.43
Ben Maas. . . . .Facebook
In college, attending First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA), Ada, OH, and
Belle Center Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPCNA), Belle Center, OH
When at home, attending Covenant Presbyterian Church (OPC), Mansfield, OH
“Prayer is as natural an expression of faith as breathing is of life.”
-Jonathan Edwards-
I voted Bi Partite. I had this debate with an Assemblies seminarian some time ago and shivered at his pelagian view of corruption.
Michael P Doyle
Waukesha WI
Member of http://www.cornerstone-pca.com/
Attending http://www.lampseminary.org/
I would think it would just mean "one part." It would mean that the division between body and mind or body and spirit is arbitrary (or at least, nonessential).
I could be confused. Doesn't bipartite mean that man has a material part and an immaterial part? How does tripartite even work since material and immaterial seem to cover all posibilites? What would be the division?
Ben Maas. . . . .Facebook
In college, attending First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA), Ada, OH, and
Belle Center Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPCNA), Belle Center, OH
When at home, attending Covenant Presbyterian Church (OPC), Mansfield, OH
“Prayer is as natural an expression of faith as breathing is of life.”
-Jonathan Edwards-
Jacob Mearse
Reformation Orthodox Presbyterian Church
Olympia, WA
Student, Reformed Theological Seminary (Virtual)
Lieutenant, U.S. Navy
Husband to April; Daddy to Wesley, Cyrus, FaithMarie and SarahAnn.
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