Okay, this is an old question, but clear thinking would be helpful. I have found the positions on both sides to be rather shallow.

The nazis come to your door. You are hiding Jews. If you tell the truth, the Jews will likely be gassed (assume for the moment they will be). If you lie, the J3ws live.

1. If you tell the truth to the Nazis, then you will help them murder Jews.
2. If you lie, you save their lives.

But is (2) necessarily a lie, given the context?

Given overly pietistic assumption, both options would be sinful.

But the Bible tells us that Jesus was tempted in all manners but was without sin. The Bible also tells us that there is a way out of temptation. So given the two choices, how do you get out of it without sinning?

Interesting Question. Rahab gives us a similar example. Ray Sutton holds that she lied and God blessed her for it. My pastor would disagree.

Answer: I would probably lie to the Nazis. Is that a sin? I don't know.

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Scott Kessler
Covenant Community OPC
Staunton, VA
Covenant Theology
Christian Skepticism
Christianity In History

1) They are not entitled to the truth
2) I'm not sure we're entitled to lie

You could pre-arrange some sort of a code word or signal so all the Jews sneak out the back door...

Then tell the nazis there are no Jews in your home. If that doesn't work, I'd say protecting the oppressed is within your God-given rights (lethal force if necessary).

Another option...for the theologically inclined...if you know that these Jews are not Christians...I'd tell the nazis you're not *hiding* any Jews...b/c we know a Jew is one who is *inwardly* and not outwardly...so Christians are "Jews"...and since you're answering the door, and consider yourself a "Jew" in the New Testament sense, you are not hiding

So I guess you could honestly answer you're not hiding any Jews and wait and see if they ask what you mean by "Jew".

I think I solved the dilemma (except for dispys!)

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Craig French
Married and father of a beautiful daughter.
Member of Christ The Word, PCA
Toledo, OH

My avatar is not me...it's my daughter (in case anyone was wondering!)
MY BLOG

I tripped jumping through the hoops and skinned my knee...

I'd lie.

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Ivan Schoen, Pastor
Maranatha Baptist Church
Poplar Grove, Illinois USA
http://maranatha-sbc.org/
Husband to Nancy
Father to Sherril, Sarah, Kathryn
Grandfather to Phillip
Faith is the refusal to panic. Martyn Lloyd-Jones

I'd say,
"It's 2008. Don't you guys know Hitler's dead?"

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Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

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--chRis
Psalm 115:1

Christopher Reeder
Husband to Kara, Father to Abigail (7), Caleb (6), Grace (4 1/2), Zoë (2 1/2), Elijah (1) and Baby Girl due 8/6/08

Member: Pilgrim Presbyterian Church (OPC), Raleigh, NC

I'm on my lunchbreak at work, so here's the short answer. I'll post more after work.

In your story, you just say the Nazis come to your door. Since they don't knock or ask any questions, you don't have to do either. No sin and the Jews survive another day.

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Timothy Johnson
First United Presbyterian of Moline
PCUSA (Yea, I know)
Theology/Philosophy Sunday School Teacher
Davenport, IA

...good one.

Perhaps it is an overly simple point of view, but I always thought the story of Rahab answered this question fairly conclusively, namely that from God's point of view, lying or deception in order to preserve life is not a sin.

The simple fact, it seems to me, is that Rahab lied to the men of the city and God commended her by putting her into the hall of faith in Hebrews 11 for it.

I believe many commentators think Rahab sinned in lying, but in James 2 God commends her (again) and this time it is in the context of the discussion that faith without works is dead, or that belief without works is dead (v19-20). Hence she is specifically being commended for her works, or what she did.

If we look else where in the bible we can find other examples of this principle. In Exodus 1:19 the hebrew midwives lied to Pharoah to save the children of the Israelites, and the bible describes them as 'fearing God' (v17, 21) and God himself commends and rewards them by building them houses.

There are more examples I cannot remember off hand right now.

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Mark Li
International University Church
New South Wales, Australia

Is it then acceptable to break the other commandments in order to save lives? If someone were to threaten to kill your wife unless you commit adultery, would it be acceptable to commit adultery? Would your wife want you to do that to save her life? There are probably better examples, but you get my point.

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Davidius
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

And though the really inspired artist may complain that, with the majority, piano-playing is mere strumming, and painting little more than daubing, yet, the exuberant feeling of having a share in the privileges of art is so overwhelming, that the scorn of the artist is preferred to the abandonment of art training in education. To have laid a production of your own, however poor, upon the altar of art becomes more and more the characteristic of an accomplished civilization. - Abraham Kuyper

To me this is the answer to the question, and a very good one.

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http://www.myspace.com/aleavelle
"Speak wisdom to a fool and he'll think you have no sense at all"

In the past I believed we could follow the Rahab example and lie, but when you look at the references to her in James and Hebrews it doesn't seem so:

"By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace." Hebrews 11:21

"Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?" James 2:25

In both verses it praises her hiding the spies, but not lying about them. In the case of Nazis and Jews, hiding the Jews definitely would be the right thing, but lying would be sinful. Several points:

1. If our faith were truly that strong, we would not lie about hiding them and trust that's God will be done, as odious as the outcome may seem to us.
2. If we truly have faith that God is in control of all things, we would uphold the truth at all times.
3. Furthermore, if the Holy Spirit is working in us, He would not lead us to lie (John 16:13).
4. And finally, telling the truth is not the same as actively killing the Jews - I have a hard time seeing that is a sin.

Having said all that, in the heat of the moment I would probably lie, which would indicate how weak my faith can be at times...

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Mason
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian Church (PCA)
New York, NY

"Come now, and let us reason together," says the Lord, "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool." - Isaiah 1:18

9 years ago Christianity Today had an interesting article on this topic: "Directions: Is Lying Always Wrong? (We live the truth not for its own sake, but for God's sake and for the neighbor's sake.)" By Allen Verhey, professor of religion at Hope College in Holland, Michigan.

I lost the hardcopy mag somewhere, and now it's only available in CT's online Library, to which one must pay a fee to access articles, and I can't spare the money to do that. If anyone has membership to that Library, here is the url:

Directions: Is Lying Always Wrong? - Christianity Today magazine - ChristianityTodayLibrary.com

I'd appreciate getting a copy of it if you access it, as I've been wanting to look at it again for some years now. It was an interesting article.

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Steve Rafalsky
Elder, International Evangelical Church (Reformed)
Limassol, Cyprus

"I am set for the defense of the gospel" (Philippians 1:17)

"Strengthened with all might, according to His glorious
power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness..." (Colossians 1:11)

The way I would approach the question is this:

I know the primary command is do not lie. But I see in the bible (not in man's pragmatic reasoning, but the word of God himself) exceptions made. Just as God defines that lying is sin, it is God too who defines what is sinful 'lying'. By looking at the bible, I understand that lying in a situation similar to Rahab's is not sin.

The question whether if this reasoning can be pushed to apply to other sins and situations is perhaps interesting, but I do not think it affects the validity of the reasoning. I see a specific 'exception' made in the context of the command not to lie and I am happy to believe that. Whether or that there is a general principle here that can be extended elsewhere is, imho, a completely different question.

To give another example, the fact that there are exceptions from the command not to murder for self defense, war and capital punishment does not logically lead us to think that the principle must be extended to committing adultery in times of war or for self defense. I think the subject of lying can be treated in the same way.

The Lord told Samuel to tell Saul something other that the truth when he was going to anoint David king. He also sent lying spirits into the mouths of the prophets and will send people strong delusion so that some will believe a lie.
Imo, you are not obligated to give the truth to some Christ hating infidel who would use it to kill you or harm others.

1Sa 16:1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons.
1Sa 16:2 And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear [it], he will kill me. And the LORD said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the LORD.
1Sa 16:3 And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and thou shalt anoint unto me [him] whom I name unto thee.


1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade [him], and prevail also: go forth, and do so.




1Ki 22:23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

I would say that telling a "lie" here would not be "bearing false witness", as long as you told the "lie" in faith it would not be a sin.

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Mike
London City Presbyterian Church
London
England

"Surely, we wish to be orthodox, but we must first learn what real orthodoxy is. Surely, we wish to be progressive, but we must first have a basis to progress from."

Obidiah lied to Jezebel:

1Ki 18:4 For it was [so], when Jezebel cut off the prophets of the LORD, that Obadiah took an hundred prophets, and hid them by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water.

1Ki 18:13 Was it not told my lord what I did when Jezebel slew the prophets of the LORD, how I hid an hundred men of the LORD'S prophets by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water?

In a war, in which lives and a godly social order are at stake, it is legitimate to lie to the enemy as Rahab and the Hebrew midwives did.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)
http://reformedcovenanter.wordpress.com/
The Regulative Principle of Worship: Explained and Applied (Xulon Press)
A Conquered Kingdom: Biblical Civil Government (Reformed Worldview Books)

I like the Rahab approach, but I'd rather think out of the box: Arm your Jewish friends with some serious firepower, have them stand behind you in the room, and say, "Hiding? Ain't nobody hiding in here!"

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R.Vic Bottomly
Providence Reformed Baptist Church, Tacoma, WA

This is, IMO, not a good example because we have commands about war and capital punishment. The definition of "murder" in the 10 commandments therefore excludes them. "Murder," by the bible's definition, is not the same as "killing." The argument for lying (and by necessary inference, I believe, other sins) is an argument which is at best based on narrative and silence, and an exception cannot be established in the same way as capital punishment.

Narrative is of course not irrelevant, but due to the fact that so many commentators have disagreed with what seems to be the standard view in this thread, I would argue that God's approval of the actual lie is up for debate, and that her inclusion in the "hall of faith" may not have been because of the lie.

This is also beside the point. When it comes down to it, God decrees all lying, and for that matter, all sin. Those prophets who brought strong delusion are not free from guilt because God decreed that they do so.