The PuritanBoard  

Go Back   The PuritanBoard > Apologetics Forum > Philosophy

Philosophy Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. (Col. 2:8)

» Site Navigation
   • Forum Rules
    • Infraction System
   • Blog Rules
   • Admins & Mods
° PBay
   • F.A.Q.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 04:39 PM
KMK's Avatar
KMK KMK is offline
Puritanboard Graduate
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wrightwood, CA
Posts: 3,424
Thanks: 995
Thanked 227 Times in 129 Posts
Logic/Rhetoric question

Is Paul's reasoning here an example of 'deduction', 'induction' or something else. (I can never keep them straight)

Quote:
Rom 10:14,15a How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 04:54 PM
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 339
Thanks: 14
Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts
It is a series of rhetorical questions. In effect, Paul is saying "In order to call on him, they need to believe. In order to to believe in him, they need to have heard of him, and in order to hear of him, they need to have someone preach to them, and in order for someone to preach to them, you need to send that someone." Each rhetorical question makes an inductive point - the first being that in order to call, they need to believe, the second that in order to believe, they need to have heard. But as the questions are rhetorical, he is assuming that these inductive points are already known. The putting them together in a logical chain - what the Romans apparently do not already know - is deductive.
__________________
T W Hopper
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church
Currently between churches since PRC closed here - attending Crossroads Christian Church.
Canberra, Australia.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Timothy William For This Useful Post:
KMK (03-27-2008)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 05:03 PM
victorbravo's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 3,029
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 81
Thanked 473 Times in 279 Posts
I'd call it an Enthymeme, that is, a set of syllogisms with implied premises used for rhetorical effect.

Because they are syllogisms, the logical method would be deductive.

If it were inductive, Paul would have said something like, "we have never experienced hearing the word without someone preaching, therefore we should have preachers."
__________________
R.Vic Bottomly
Providence Reformed Baptist Church, Tacoma, WA
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to victorbravo For This Useful Post:
Civbert (03-28-2008), KMK (03-27-2008)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 06:14 PM
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Vallejo, CA
Posts: 388
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
You could rewrite it in the form of a deductive argument called a sorites where the predicate of the premise is the subject of the next premise until the conclusion of the argument joins the subject of the first premise with the predicate of the last premise.

Below is the argument rewritten in the form of a sorites:

Premise 1: In order to call on him, they need to believe.
Premise 2: In order to believe in him, they need to have heard of him
Premise 3: In order to hear of him, they need to have someone preach to them.
Premise 4: In order for someone to preach to them, you need to send that someone.
Conclusion: In order to call on him, you need to send that someone.
__________________
Curt Hayashida
member, Community Bible Church (Non-denominational)
Vallejo, CA

Last edited by cih1355; 03-27-2008 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Correction
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cih1355 For This Useful Post:
KMK (03-27-2008), panta dokimazete (03-27-2008)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 10:30 PM
panta dokimazete's Avatar
Puritanboard Graduate
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,130
Thanks: 257
Thanked 117 Times in 96 Posts
I would refine it just a bit:

Premise 1: In order for them to call on him, they need to believe
.
.
.
Conclusion: In order for them to call on him, you need to send that someone
__________________
-JD
[URL="http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B52C005.htm#V21"]1Thess5:21[/URL]
Ordained Deacon, PCA
Serving on Ministry Staff, SBC
MS

[url=http://www.christianskepticism.org]Team blog: ChristianSkepticism.org[/url] | [URL="http://mbbchurch.com"]Martin Bluff Church [/URL] | Personal:[URL="http://jdlblog.blogspot.com"]...a Longmire rambles[/URL]
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 11:04 PM
Rev. Todd Ruddell's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Lavon, TX
Posts: 182
Thanks: 14
Thanked 44 Times in 18 Posts
The Apostle argues for his position from the impossibility of the contrary. These four questions are asked in rhetorical fashion, each with the obvious answer, "It is impossible". It seems to me that since he is making absolute statements, these cannot be inductive, but dogmatic.
__________________
Rev. Todd Ruddell
Pastor, Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPCGA)
Wylie, TX
www.christcovenantreformedpc.org

Our best marks can contribute nothing to our justification, ...that is proper to faith. Faith cannot lodge in the soul alone, and without other graces; yet faith alone justifies before God.--G. Gillespie
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 11:16 PM
Grymir's Avatar
Puritanboard Sophomore
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 843
Thanks: 122
Thanked 108 Times in 87 Posts
I don't know it it's either, or even a syllogism. The conclusion is not stated in the verses. In vs. 17 it reads "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Of course, this is also telling what a preacher should be preaching)
__________________
Timothy Johnson
First United Presbyterian of Moline
PCUSA (Yea, I know)
Theology/Philosophy Sunday School Teacher
Davenport, IA
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0 ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2002-2008 PuritanBoard.com
Hosted by WebsiteMaven - helping ministries with web hosting advice, reviews, and design.
Westminster Abbey © Confessional Presbyterian Presses - used with permission.
Add Our Custom Button to your Google Toolbar

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61