I have just finished listeneing to the 12 disc series "Defending the christian worldview against all opposition, Series One" by Bahnsen and have found it to be very thought provoking.

What it has convinced me of is the necessity of developing a self consciously Christian world view.

I have alwys found the Reformed position to be by far the most consistently logical Christian position, in some ways the whole basis of Calvinism is logical consistency.

Would I therefore be correct in in understanding that Presupositionalism is largely a Reformed domain, as the total sovereignnty of God is required for the internal critique to be consistent?

Incidently I was half way through the series when I had a conversation something like this at work:

Colleague- do you believe that evolutionary development is random
Me- no
Colleague- but if evolution is not random then it does not work
Me- who says that evolution works
Colleague- but if it does not work then developments will not be random
Me- who says that developments have to be random
Colleague- but if developments are not random evolution does not work
Me- who says that evolution works
Colleague- I think that we have both reached our level of ignorance here
Me- I have not attempted to explain anything, I have just pointed out that your entire position was based on the presupposition that evolution "worked"
Colleague- Well the argument sounded good in the book I was reading


The whole approach is really helpful in just understanding the whole basis for discussion.

__________________
Mike
London City Presbyterian Church
London
England

"Surely, we wish to be orthodox, but we must first learn what real orthodoxy is. Surely, we wish to be progressive, but we must first have a basis to progress from."

Presup is definitely a Reformed approach...Van Til definitely saw it as the Reformed approach.

That Bahnsen series you have is the best intro to presup in audio version, imo...I have the 1st and 2nd series and have listened to all the disks between 5-7 times each.

Always Readywas a regurgitation of just about everything in that audio series...with the exception of the Acts 17 exegesis and a few bits here and there.

__________________
Craig French
Married and father of a beautiful daughter.
Member of Christ The Word, PCA
Toledo, OH

MY BLOG

I've been having an ongoing conversation with someone at my school who claims to be an agnostic. Our last conversation ended with him saying something to the effect of: "I don't care that I can't explain why anything at all exists, but that doesn't mean I have to believe in a creator."

Any thoughts?

Daniel

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Daniel Franzen
Church Creek Presbyterian (PCA)
Charleston, SC

I think that the argument is that he is beleieving in the creator even if he does not admit this to even himself, he is suppressing his belief in God due to his unrightiousness.

If we does not believe in a creator how come he upholds a level of morality, loves his mother and believes the sun will rise each morning.

His actions are not consistent with his claimed agnostisism.

The proble is that where does that get you in your debate and I think that it forces your friend to at least face the unsupresses thought for at least a second that there is a God.

Whether God uses this oportunity to show mercy to your friend is of cours eentirely down ro his sovereign will.

Romans 1:18 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Deo volente

Good for you. I don't think we have to have a perfect response to such opportunities before we advance the dialog. God put you there; He didn't put all your PB buddies there to give you the perfect response.

But here is an illustration you might use: what if you didn't believe in air? You could should your disbelief until you're hoarse, but you'd still be using air to shout your disbelief in it.

The doctrine of special revelation acknowledges that the creation order leaves man without any excuse, but still says that the special revelation of Scripture plus the Holy Spirit's illumination is necessary before anyone can believe.

We claim the promise of Isa. 55:11 that God's word will not return to Him void, when we tell stories and share the principles of God's word, knowing that our work is a mere instrumentality in the Holy Spirit's hands.

Let this encourage you. Love your part of the country, btw. I was born there, and my maternal grandfather was superintendent of the Goose Creek water works for over 40 years.

__________________

HaigLaw, ruling elder
Grace PCA, Shreveport, LA
http://www.xanga.com/HaigLaw