A Christian view of fastfood working

Puritan Sailor · #1 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 08:10 PM

Johnny is too poor to go to a Christian worldview conference, buy lots of Christian books, or get a college education. He's not unintelligent. Just young and poor, from a family just as poor. At this point in his life McDonalds is the only place who will hire him. So lets help him develop an ethic of fastfood working to build into his Christian worldview. How can his ethic give him an apologetic where he works? How can he be an effective Christian where he is?

North Jersey Baptist · #2 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 08:30 PM

Do his job well. Obey his boss. Don't showboat his faith, "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence"

Archlute · #3 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul manata

Shove someone's face in the fryer and ask, "Why was that ethically wrong given that we're just evolved bags 'o meat?"

Paul, that is seriously sick! (but my eyes teared up trying to stifle my chuckles...)

Puritan Sailor · #4 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaptistInCrisis

Do his job well. Obey his boss. Don't showboat his faith, "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence"

Ok. Let's fill it out some more. Other than the apologetic approach of sticking someones face in the frier

how else can he be a light in such a dark place? What will make him stand out as a Christian worker versus a hardworking pagan? Remember, he probably can't articualte things the same way we would on the Puritan Board. He probably doesn't know alot of theology. He probably can't answer fools according to their own folly. How is he to evangelize under those conditions?

North Jersey Baptist · #5 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Ok. Let's fill it out some more. Other than the apologetic approach of sticking someones face in the frier

how else can he be a light in such a dark place? What will make him stand out as a Christian worker versus a hardworking pagan? Remember, he probably can't articualte things the same way we would on the Puritan Board. He probably doesn't know alot of theology. He probably can't answer fools according to their own folly. How is he to evangelize under those conditions?

He can't do any of those things? I feel sorry for this poor slob you've conjured out of thin air.

Can we talk to Johnny directly? I'd like to know what he does understand about the gospel.

North Jersey Baptist · #6 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Ok. Let's fill it out some more. Other than the apologetic approach of sticking someones face in the frier

how else can he be a light in such a dark place? What will make him stand out as a Christian worker versus a hardworking pagan? Remember, he probably can't articualte things the same way we would on the Puritan Board. He probably doesn't know alot of theology. He probably can't answer fools according to their own folly. How is he to evangelize under those conditions?

In all seriousness, Johnny should do all the things I suggested. He should seek to build relationships with his co-workers that will lead to "divine appointments." If Johnny does not feel capable of presenting the gospel, he could always invite them to church. He can display acts of kindness. In short, he can carry himself in such a way that he will be antithical to the world around him.

bowhunter1961 · #7 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 09:31 PM

i am that slob............maybe i should change my handle to SlobInCrisis

Joshua · #8 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul manata

he should keep behaving in the above manner. He will be distingushed from the hard working pagan in time. The hard working pagan is a moralist, when tragedy or crisis hit, he does not have the resources to deal with the issues. Johnny may be poor, but he has a Bible, he can read that, and he can point people to what it says about the nature of man, why man does what he does, and how man is to acheive salvation.

When people at his job struggle, they will go to Johnny, not the hard working pagan. The hard working pagan has no answers. No satisfactory reason to do what he does. When the cashier's father dies, all the pagan can tell her is, "Awww, that sucks, I'm sorry."

Bandguy · #9 (**permalink**) 03-02-2007, 11:25 PM

Agree with Bill and Paul above. All he can do is be obedient to God and share the Word of God and pray for his friends. It is God who will save the elect and bring them to repentance. Why would we try to make the simple complicated?

C. Matthew McMahon · #10 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 10:16 AM

Maybe even a more ethical question would be should he work at McDonalds at all as a Christian?

In other words, have you seen "Super Size" me?

Chris · #11 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Remember, he probably can't articualte things the same way we would on the Puritan Board. He probably doesn't know alot of theology. He probably can't answer fools according to their own folly. How is he to evangelize under those conditions?

That may help him more than it hinders him. He doesn't have any formal training or deep theological knowledge to get wrapped up in. When pressed, he may be able to do no more than revert to John 9:25..'I once was blind but now I see'.

God seems to take great delight in using the simple, the base, the vile. Now where did I read that?

BJClark · #12 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 10:20 AM

Puritan Sailor;

He can show up on time, do his work, when others are standing around complaining he doesn't have to join in their complaints but work to make changes, even suggest some changes to his employer.

If others are gossiping about co-workers, or what a person orders he can walk away and not participate in their gossip, even letting them know (if they come-a-gossiping to him), he can certainly ask if they have spoken to the person directly about the problem they have with them?

He could say something like..."I'm sorry your having such a difficult time with them, have you discussed that with them?" Maybe if you speak to them about it, they would consider making some changes."

If he see's something needs done, he doesn't wait for someone to tell him to do it, he just does it.

If he gets frustrated with someone, even a customer, and reacts in anger, he goes and apologizes to them if he has a chance before they leave, and even then he can apologize to those he works with who may have 'heard' his reaction.

If he see's customers struggling with small children he can offer to bring the food their table, so they can get their kids settled down..

Pergamum · #13 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 11:57 AM

Matt;

I guess he could always refuse to serve fat people more Big Macs...

He could say, "Are you sure you want the regular coke maam...your hips are pretty thunderous already..."

Yes, I agree. Unless one has to work somewhere or starve, one could find a better job that doesn't kill people.

But where?

If they work at a gas station they end up selling condoms and prngphy to unmarried folks and delinguents, if they work at any restaurant they end up serving already obese folks. If they work at Walmart they could have to stock morning after pills, if they join the military they might or might not agree with every war (and I do believe it to be sin if they engage in a war they don't beleive in). If they work in psychology or as a counselor or as a nurse or police man, there are always issues that rub.

When working in the secular world it is very hard to be in the world and not of the world and to make a living without supporting something that is sin, or leads to sin, or does no good at all for society besides giving you a paycheck. Even to work for a secular business or working to enrich a secular boss seems frustrating... but I guess God wills to place people in all sorts of areas so that a light can be in all sorts of places. Some places would be, however, more trying, and these places I guess need more prayers. I guess the alternative would be to take a vow of poverty and find a desert - but this influences society even less.

Joshua · #14 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevorjohnson

Matt;

I guess he could always refuse to serve fat people more Big Macs...

He could say, "Are you sure you want the regular coke maam...your hips are pretty thunderous already..."

So profound!

North Jersey Baptist · #15 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 12:25 PM

People...puhleeze. Gimme a break. I don't know whether Matt was joking or not when he suggested poor Johnny finds a job that is more ethical. For those of you who are not tea drinkers exclusively

, don't you think that is a bit hypocritical? You'll buy your wine, beer or liquor and probably not think twice about those who drink to excess and are alcoholics. The same thing goes for those who eat at Mickey Dee's, Burger King or Wendy's. Should we tell the Christian employee who works at a liquor store to get another job because of those who abuse alcohol? Mmm?

Pergamum · #16 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 12:36 PM

I think I would advise a Christian employee who works at a liquor store to get another job if at all possible.

It is not usually presbyterian elders that are coming in at midnight to buy 2 liters of Maddog for communion the next day.... MY time working for a secular master could be spent more wisely.

satz · #17 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaptistInCrisis

People...puhleeze. Gimme a break. I don't know whether Matt was joking or not when he suggested poor Johnny finds a job that is more ethical. For those of you who are not tea drinkers exclusively

, don't you think that is a bit hypocritical? You'll buy your wine, beer or liquor and probably not think twice about those who drink to excess and are alcoholics. The same thing goes for those who eat at Mickey Dee's, Burger King or Wendy's. Should we tell the Christian employee who works at a liquor store to get another job because of those who abuse alcohol? Mmm?

Even the plowing of the wicked is sin (Prov 21:4), but God never condemned working for an unbelieving master (1 Tim 6:2) so long as the Christian did not personally sin himself. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and Joseph all served horrible pagan masters but did not consider it a sin to do so though their many duties would inevitably brought them in indirect contact with sin. They refused to sin themselves, but did not consider it wrong to simply hold the positions they did. Paul was happy to call Erastus a brother though he was chamberlain of the city of Corinth (Rom 16:23,27). I do not believe being in a job that brings you into indirect association with sin is any cause of concern for a christian, or all jobs would have to be condemned.

Regarding the original question, I honestly believe that the answer is the same irregardless of the job he works. Basically he should a) be a Christian, b) work hard and diligently at his job. I agree with Paul that if he does so consistently sooner or later he will distinguish himself from being just another ‘hardworking pagan.’

To put it another way, if we were to ask the question what is the Christian work ethic regarding employment, I think what the bible has to say is simply to work hard, treating each ask your employer gives you as if the Lord himself has asked you to do it. And to honor and obey your boss as being an authority figure ordained by God, because God loves authority, as it is one of his fundamental attributes. There might be more to say regarding the way he relates to and evangelizes his co-workers, but this has more to do with the general way Christians relate to those around them as opposed to being specifically about work or employment.

Quote:

Ephesians 6:5-8 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

Colossians 3:22-25 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

1 Timothy 6:1-5 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Titus 2:9-15 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

1 Peter 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

Pergamum · #18 (**permalink**) 03-03-2007, 10:23 PM

Yes, Mark's reply is very good, but in the freedom and opportunity of our country, why work in a place that helps influence people in a bad way? Usually, if one looks, one could find a better job. But, if those are unavailable, then like the servants of old, obey your unbelieving master and work hard. If able, however, find a better master.

Puritan Sailor · #19 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaptistInCrisis

He can't do any of those things? I feel sorry for this poor slob you've conjured out of thin air.

Can we talk to Johnny directly? I'd like to know what he does understand about the gospel.

I conjured him up because that is the population most overlooked by us Reformed folks today. Keep in mind, most Christians in the world today are poorer and less educated than even Johnny. Yet these are the folks whom God is using to spread the gospel throughout Africa and South America. I'm just trying to inject a little more pastoral reasoning into our theological discussions and show how a robust Reformed worldview is possible even for the poorest of the poor, even though they don't use the terms.

North Jersey Baptist · #20 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

I conjured him up because that is the population most overlooked by us Reformed folks today. Keep in mind, most Christians in the world today are poorer and less educated than even Johnny. Yet these are the folks whom God is using to spread the gospel throughout Africa and South America. I'm just trying to inject a little more pastoral reasoning into our theological discussions and show how a robust Reformed worldview is possible even for the poorest of the poor, even though they don't use the terms.

Patrick, this is something that many Baptist churches have recognized. We may not be WCF Reformed, but we are well acquainted with ministering to disadvantaged and poor. I would argue that if "our" gospel (the gospel promulgated within Reformed circles) does not resonate with the poor of soceity, it is shallow and does not display the love of Christ (Matthew 25:34-46).