blind faith

Scott · #1 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 05:05 PM

Is someone suggested that Hebrews 11:1 taught blind faith, how would you respond exegetically that he was wrong (assuming you think he is wrong)?

BobVigneault · #2 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 05:15 PM

The verse is speaking of the OBJECT (things not seen) of our faith, not the faith itself. Our faith results in assurance that Jesus is Lord and that our invisible God has raised him from the dead. These are things we cannot see but know that they are not only true but suitable as a foundation for our entire system of belief.

[Edited on 5-12-2006 by BobVigneault]

Vytautas · #3 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 05:43 PM

Blind faith does not know who you believe in such as believing a stranger will help you in dire situations when you do not know who the person is. It makes a commitment that results in failure. In contrast, we know whom we have believed, and are persuaded that he is able to keep that which we have committed unto him against that day. Saving faith results in victory over trodden down enemies.

Scott · #4 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 05:49 PM

Thanks, guys. You guys might get a kick out of this line from the movie Keeping the Faith (Ben Stiller, Jenna Elfman). It was given by a Catholic priest in a sermon.

Quote:

Faith is a feeling. It's a hunch, really. A hunch that there is something larger connecting everything together, connecting us together. That hunch is God.

I am talking to our Youth class this Sunday about how faith is portrayed in the movies (and how it contrasts to real biblical faith) and the above clip is something I am using.

Scott · #5 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 05:50 PM

BTW, does anyone know any online resources on the history of apologetics that describes how defining faith as fideism came to dominate the church's current thinking?

turmeric · #6 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 05:53 PM

Bummer! I thought you were talking about Eric Claption!

VirginiaHuguenot · #7 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by turmeric
Bummer! I thought you were talking about Eric Claption!

Jeff_Bartel · #8 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BobVigneault
The verse is speaking of the OBJECT (things not seen) of our faith, not the faith itself. Our faith results in assurance that Jesus is Lord and that our invisible God has raised him from the dead. These are things we cannot see but know that they are not only true but suitable as a foundation for our entire system of belief.

In my experience, a "blind faith" usually means that people can believe something without actually understanding it. This is impossible. Faith is not an "implicit faith" as the Roman Church-State says it can be, but it includes the understanding of the object. Also, the "blind faith" idea usually stems from a free-will view of regeneration, and so people are asked to "step out in a leap of faith." This is obviously Arminianism at its finest. Faith is not blind, for when we have faith, the scriptures say that we can now SEE! Those who do not have faith are the blind ones, and hence we have the blind leading the blind.

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, "œFor judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind."

Average Joey · #9 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel

Quote:

Originally posted by BobVigneault
The verse is speaking of the OBJECT (things not seen) of our faith, not the faith itself. Our faith results in assurance that Jesus is Lord and that our invisible God has raised him from the dead. These are things we cannot see but know that they are not only true but suitable as a foundation for our entire system of belief.

In my experience, a "blind faith" usually means that people can believe something without actually understanding it. This is impossible. Faith is not an "implicit faith" as the Roman Church-State says it can be, but it includes the understanding of the object. Also, the "blind faith" idea usually stems from a free-will view of regeneration, and so people are asked to "step out in a leap of faith." This is obviously Arminianism at its finest. Faith is not blind, for when we have faith, the scriptures say that we can now SEE! Those who do not have faith are the blind ones, and hence we have the blind leading the blind.

Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, "œFor judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind."

This falls into line with the "culture christians" running around in America today."How long have you been a Christian?"Answer:"Since I was born.""What does being a Christian mean?"Answer:"I believe in Jesus""What does it mean to believe in Jesus?"Answer:"Look,I believe in God,okay!"

Vytautas · #10 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel
Faith is not an "implicit faith" as the Roman Church-State says it can be, but it includes the understanding of the object.

Do not Christians have an implicit faith that the Bible is the Word of God? If faith must contain understanding, then most Christians believe that only part of the Bible is the Word of God. I suppose that some Christians have memorized and understand perfectly the whole Bible. But, in my experience, if faith includes understanding, then I only believe part of the Bible because I do not understand everything.

Jeff_Bartel · #11 (**permalink**) 05-12-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vytautas
Do not Christians have an implicit faith that the Bible is the Word of God?

It is true that the Bible is self-authenticating (See WCF, Chapter I, Sections IV, and V). However, the proposition "The Bible is the Word of God" must be understood in order to be believed. By "implicit faith", properly is meant a faith that is without understanding. For example, a fellow at work says that he believes everything in the bible, but yet he has not read it completely. When I present him with scripture regarding almost any reformed doctrines, he denies them, and therefore he does not believe the "entire bible."

Quote:

Originally posted by Vytautas
If faith must contain understanding, then most Christians believe that only part of the Bible is the Word of God.

I believe there may be some truth in this statement. If a person who has never read Leveticus says "I believe that Leveitcus is the Word of God", but when I in passing quote a passage to him, he may very well say "I've never read that in the Bible" or "That's not in the Bible" or something to that effect. Does he believe that statement from Levitcus is the Word of God?

Granted, if the passage is shown to him from the Scriptures, and he then says "I believe this passage from Leviticus is the Word of God", he would be right. But then again, the pointing out of this passage from the Bible would remove his ignorance, and give him understanding.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vytautas
I suppose that some Christians have memorized and understand perfectly the whole Bible. But, in my experience, if faith includes understanding, then I only believe part of the Bible because I do not understand everything.

I also believe this is true. I believe only part of the Bible as well (i.e. every part I am familiar with or read). Ignorance is not faith, but is rather sinful. To say that faith can be ignorant, is to say that faith is then sinful.

The WLC Q. 105 lists ignorance as a sin against the 1st commandment, and a reason for being kept from the Lord's table in Q. 173.

In fact, knowledge is referred to as faith in some respects in the Bible:

Isa 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,

The Westminster Larger Catechism states:

Quote:

Q21: What is true faith?
A21: True faith is not only a sure knowledge, whereby I hold for truth all that God has revealed to us in His Word,[1] but also a hearty trust,[2] which the Holy Ghost [3] works in me by the Gospel,[4] that not only to others, but to me also, forgiveness of sins, everlasting righteousness, and salvation are freely given by God,[5] merely of grace, only for the sake of Christ's merits.[6]

1. James 1:6
2. Rom. 4:16-18; 5:1
3. II Cor. 4:13; Phil. 1:19, 29

4. Rom. 1:16; 10:17
5. Heb. 11:1-2; Rom. 1:17
6. Eph. 2:7-9; Rom. 3:24-25; Gal. 2:16; Acts 10:43

The Heidelberg Catechism, Lord's Day 7 states:

Quote:

Q21: What is true faith?
A21: True faith is not only a sure knowledge, whereby I hold for truth all that God has revealed to us in His Word,[1] but also a hearty trust,[2] which the Holy Ghost [3] works in me by the Gospel,[4] that not only to others, but to me also, forgiveness of sins, everlasting righteousness, and salvation are freely given by God,[5] merely of grace, only for the sake of Christ's merits.[6]

1. James 1:6
2. Rom. 4:16-18; 5:1
3. II Cor. 4:13; Phil. 1:19, 29

4. Rom. 1:16; 10:17
5. Heb. 11:1-2; Rom. 1:17
6. Eph. 2:7-9; Rom. 3:24-25; Gal. 2:16; Acts 10:43

Calvin also defines faith thus:

Quote:

A firm and sure knowledge of the divine favour toward us, founded on the truth of a free promise in Christ, and revealed to our minds, and sealed on our hearts, by the Holy Spirit.
Institutes of the Christian Religion(3.2.7)

I hope I am understanding your questions correctly!