I have come out of the Charismatic movement and now embrace Reformed Theology and the Doctrines of Grace. Some of the practices and Theology that I have learned through the years has been a subject of study and reassessing what I believe to be solid biblical doctrine.

I have spoken to some in the Reformed camp that say God does not speak to individuals today and we can only be guided by His written Word.

I know some who have stated that "God spoke to my heart about moving to Florida" or "God spoke to me about my career options".

They did not claim that they heard the audible voice of God but felt that through prayer and speaking and praying with other beleivers that they felt God was speaking to them about their situation. One of my friends said that was not God because He does not speak through people anymore but only through the Bible.

What are your thoughts on this? Example: If someone is called to be a pastor how would they know this? There is no verse in the bible that says "Steve Thou Shalt be a Pastor says the Lord". So if a person is called by God will not God speak to that persons heart about that calling? (Not an audible voice but through prayer, study of scripture and witness of others around him? If that is true then it is safe to say that God Still Speaks, Yes or No?

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Steve
Sonship Ministries (Reformed)
Brooklyn, NY

I have recently thought about this question, or more specifically the related topic of doing what God wants me to do rather than what I want to do.

This thread might help.

Anyway, a few conclusions I have come to is that God can still guide us through Providence without giving us explicit statements, and when people talk about feeling called or led to something, that's exactly what they mean: they feel. So, when people say that God wants them to do something, what they mean is that (1) it's not forbidden in the Word, and (2) they have a desire to do it, which they have no reason to believe came from the flesh or the devil.

I hope I can see some other input though.

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Ben Maas. . . . .Facebook
In college, attending First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA), Ada, OH, and
Belle Center Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPCNA), Belle Center, OH
When at home, attending Covenant Presbyterian Church (OPC), Mansfield, OH

“Prayer is as natural an expression of faith as breathing is of life.”
-Jonathan Edwards-

In regards to the pastorate scripture does state if one desires the office of an overseer this is a good thing. One would need to have the internal desire or drive to become a pastor. However, this is not the sole determining factor if one is called to be a pastor. There's the internal and external call. The internal call begins with the individual the external call is comfirmed by the church. Just because someone has a desire to preach or pastor does not mean they are gifted for that office. Their gifts must be tested under the guidance of the session and presbytery. Most reformed denominations also require a M.Div degree in order to be considered for the pastorate. The bible is clear that some men have specific giftings for teaching and pastoring others do not. They have other gifts. There are also stern warnings about becoming a minister of the word.

Timothy 3:1
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

Trying to determine ones "call" or (vocational calling) in life can be determined by prayer, God's providence, (where has currently placed me), recognizing your own gifts and nurturing them, and seeking godly counsel.


In addition Romans 12 discusses the need for one to think soberly about their gifts.

3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; 7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; 8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.


If you desire to become a minister of the word I would encourage you to listed to the following teaching by Al Martin.

Blessings.

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John
Member
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

The vital thing is to line yourself up with the revealed will of God, that which you know he wants for a follower/disciple to believe, be, or do.

Then trust that he will put desires in your heart that are in accord with his will (Ps.37:4). IOW, trust God and do what you want. Be prepared to have him redirect you, and be complacent in that.

If you desire to be a pastor, that is a "good work" according to Paul (1Tim.3:1). So, prepare your heart for that work, by diligent study, and especially by serving in your present capacity.

Let the church observe your gifts, and see if they bear evidence of what the Bible teaches an elder MUST be. This is turning the final answer to the question "am I called" away from your own subjectivity, and submitting to the general operation of the Spirit in the church, and by his Word.

Finally, the ultimate validation of your inward, subjective sense, and the corresponding exhibition of gifts is when the church issues a man a "call." He is not thrusting himself into the ministry, but the church is recognizing that God has sent a man.

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Rev. Bruce G. Buchanan
ChainOLakes Presbyterian Church, CentralLake, MI


When posting friends, kindly bear those words of earthly wisdom in mind:
Oh, that God the gift would give us
To see ourselves as others see us.
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All the replies have been solid and I don't feel I have much to add except what has been really helpful for me.

Got it from Jonathan Edwards, who said that he has never had trouble trying to ascertain the will of God. Pointing to a boat, he illustrates by saying the captain of the boat raises the sail but it is the wind that carries it to wherever it needs to go. Likewise, he simply makes sure his sails are always up and rest assure on the leadership of God.

Don't trust in your ability to discern the will of God, trust in the ability of God to lead. That said, keep your sails up by being faithful and diligent in the things that are good and necessary.

Hope this helps Steven.

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Ewen
1689 LBCF
Assemblies of God Bible College
Singapore

Thank you for sharing that Ewen, I would love to read that by Edwards....can you provide a link or source?

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Yvonne
Reformed Presbyterian
Currently seeking a Church

"A man's most glorious actions will at last be found to be but glorious sins, if he hath made himself, and not the glory of God, the end of those actions." -T. Brooks

Evangelical Guy: "And I heard God say..."

Reformed Guy: "I was reading my Bible today..."

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Pastor Nathan Eshelman, Los Angeles, CA
Reformed Presbyterian Church
PRESBYTERIAN THOUGHTS
Los Angeles Reformed Presbyterian Church
RPCLA Sermons Online
Puritan Reformed Seminary

God speaks to me every day at around 8pm...that's when I read my Bible!

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Tim Lindsay
member, Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, Halifax, NS, Canada
Living in Cape Town, South Africa
"under the Southern Cross, at the foot of Table Mountain, not far from the Cape of Good Hope"

Did you read about the morning John Piper heard from God (it's not what you think).

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Joshua F
Layman
Mountain View Community Church (Missionary Church Denomination)
Johnstown, CO

Christian Timothy George, Jonathan Edwards, Trail Blazers (Scotland, England: Christian Focus Publishing, 2008), 49.

It's a mini biography in a story type of book. Wouldn't cite it in any research work, haven't found the exact account in either Marsden or Murray.

-----Added 5/22/2009 at 08:06:07 EST-----

Another reason why John Piper is adored by so many today..

Thanks for this

So beautiful! If only more and more would read His Word daily and hear his 'voice' to them!
Thanks for sharing that! I'm going right to those verses he mentioned and relish them again, hearing His 'voice' to me this day!

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Nancy L./ www.foundersbaptist.org
Spring, TX

Your will, Lord Jesus Christ! Nothing more... nothing less... nothing else.

Funny about this thread. A dear brother I've known for 12 years who was quasi-charismatic arminian when I first met him but was becoming reformed has told me he is called to the ministry because of a vision he had. What do you say to that? He's pursuing it by having been recently ordained a Ruling Elder in the PCA.

I love him, but that scares me.

Of course, at this same PCA Church I recently had a Deacon tell me he was saved because of a vision he had. I don't even begin to know what to say to such things.

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Brad
Member- Eagle Heights PCA
Winchester, VA

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Most in the reformed community have a healthy distrust in our own thoughts and inclinations, realizing the depth of the fall in our lives. We also value "the counsel of many" when it is based solidly in scripture.

"The spirit is leading me ..." and "I just feel like God is telling me xyz" is based in individualized experience that is highly optimistic that our inclinations are pure. I'd much rather go to the scriptures and have my thoughts checked by the godly men and women around me. On reflection, I am so grateful God has blessed me with his word and the saints!

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JWithnell
Member Bethel OPC
Virginia
http://learningyesican.blogspot.com/

A dear sister in my old church was engaged to a man in another state. She was struggling with the whole relationship. Some well meaning sisters gathered around her and one "prophesied" or what I usually call "PROPH-A-LIED" "Thus says the Lord, I have called you to be with this man, together you will be mighty in the kingdom" or something to that effect. Everyone was praising God and Rejoicing.

A week later the phone rang - the fiance was arrested for multiple counts of child molesting.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe that this sister heard from God, but I thin, that God was confused that day.

-----Added 5/22/2009 at 10:30:24 EST-----

That is the typical kind of prayer meeting that I came out from under.....CRAZY

We've heard from God. He has spoken in the Scriptures.

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Donald Jacobs
Roanoke VA.
Covenant Reformed Episcopal Church.

Cum vero infirmor tunc potens sum.

Brother,

How can you stand being in an Assemblies of God School when you do not agree with their theology? It must be killing you. Do you adhere to their theology of Speaking in Tongues is the Initial Evidence of Being Filled with the Holy Spirit? They claim that if you do not speak in tongues you are not filled with the Spirit. So that leaves a 2 class Christian Church. Those who are saved and not filled with the Spirit because they did not attain to this second blessing though many have prayed, fasted, cried, begged, pleaded and still have not had that "SECOND BLESSING" experience. And then there are those who did receive it and are filled with the Spirit.

I belonged to an A.G. Church and though they do so much for missions around the world I have issues with some of their doctrines that seem to divide the body of Christ into an elite class and a not so elite class of Believers.

I would add...

Evangelical: God laid it on my heart.