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Calvinism & The Doctrines of Grace discuss Ordo Salutis and 4 pointers in the Theology forums; In school one of the things I have noticed is that everyone at DTS laughs (not literally) at the idea that regeneration preceeds faith. These ...

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    CIT
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    Ordo Salutis and 4 pointers

    In school one of the things I have noticed is that everyone at DTS laughs (not literally) at the idea that regeneration preceeds faith. These same profs then claim to be four pointers.

    So it seems to me that although they claim to be quasi-Calvinists, they have a different understanding of "I" than we do.

    Is this common with 4 pointers?
    B

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    What's common is a misunderstanding of how the "five points," that is the doctrines of grace, are logically and necessarily biblically dependent on one another and related to one another.

    Often, it begins with not understanding the "T" total depravity- that the fall comprehensively affected every aspect of man's being, mind, will, emotions, body such that man has the moral inability to seek God in a saving way.

    Therefore, only a change of the constituent nature of a human being, a miracle done first by God causes a person to be free to savingly believe.

    "What is Reformed Theology?" by RC Sproul might be helpful as it reviews this in detail.
    http://www.ligonier.org/store/what-i...ogy-paperback/

    Note also at the bottom of the resources page, a book No Longer a 3 Point Calvinist. I have not read that book, but it might be helpful along the same lines.
    Scott
    PCA
    North Carolina


    Post Tenebras Lux; "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." - Revelation 11:15
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    discipulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    In school one of the things I have noticed is that everyone at DTS laughs (not literally) at the idea that regeneration preceeds faith. These same profs then claim to be four pointers.

    So it seems to me that although they claim to be quasi-Calvinists, they have a different understanding of "I" than we do.

    Is this common with 4 pointers?
    Boliver, when you mention they are 4 pointers I would imagine that meant the L in some form of Amyraldism, that is often the case with 4 pointers, Richard Baxter is a famous example.
    César Proença

    there is no will nor running by which we can prepare the way for our salvation, it is wholly of the Divine Mercy Jean Calvin Institutes II . V. 17

    Reformed Churches in The Netherlands (liberated) http://www.gkv.nl/main.asp?intTreeviewID=954

    Igreja Reformada em Massamá Portugal http://www.igrejareformada.pt

    Church Creek Presbyterian, PCA, Charleston, SC. Visiting member http://www.church-creek.org

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    CIT
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    Yes, they reject "L," but it also seems that they redefine the other letters as well.
    B

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    discipulo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Yes, they reject "L," but it also seems that they redefine the other letters as well.
    I see. I guess, as it is often the case, it ends up being an entirely different flower
    César Proença

    there is no will nor running by which we can prepare the way for our salvation, it is wholly of the Divine Mercy Jean Calvin Institutes II . V. 17

    Reformed Churches in The Netherlands (liberated) http://www.gkv.nl/main.asp?intTreeviewID=954

    Igreja Reformada em Massamá Portugal http://www.igrejareformada.pt

    Church Creek Presbyterian, PCA, Charleston, SC. Visiting member http://www.church-creek.org

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    CIT
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    Quote Originally Posted by discipulo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Yes, they reject "L," but it also seems that they redefine the other letters as well.
    I see. I guess, as it is often the case, it ends up being an entirely different flower
    Reminds me of a black widow rose. It is called a rose, but it is not that pretty and smells horrible.
    B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Yes, they reject "L," but it also seems that they redefine the other letters as well.
    Often, but not always, it is difficulty with the "U" and "L" based on not understanding the "T," and not having the systematic theology of the doctrines of grace. That's why it is so incredibly powerful when one understands, really understands that God is indeed sovereign.
    Scott
    PCA
    North Carolina


    Post Tenebras Lux; "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." - Revelation 11:15
    1 member(s) found this post helpful.

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