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05-30-2008, 12:08 PM
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| | | Need qoutes from John Wesley's arminianism !
Does anyone knows or has links with qoutes from John Wesley were his heresies on arminianism and free will is shown ?
In how far was he an arminian ? Did he different with Arminius himself ?
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05-30-2008, 12:32 PM
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From: The Five Points of Calvinism: The Perseverance of the Saints Quote:
But later the Arminian openly rejected the idea of perseverance of saints. I quote from John Wesley as given in the book, "Elements of Divinity," by Ralston, page 455.
Can a child of God, then, go to hell? Or can a man be a child of God today, and a child of the devil tomorrow? If God is our Father once, is he not our Father always?
I answer, 1. A child of God - that is, a true believer - (for he that believeth is born of God,) while he continues a true believer, cannot go to hell. 2. If a believer makes shipwreck of the faith, he is no longer a child of God; and then he may go to hell, yea, and certainly will, if he continues in unbelief. 3. If a believer may make shipwreck of the faith, then a man that believes now may be an unbeliever some time hence; yea, very possibly tomorrow; but if so, he who is a child of God today, may be a child of the devil tomorrow. For, 4. God is the Father of them that believe, so long as they believe; but the devil is the father of them that believe not, whether they did once believe or no.
The sum of all is this: If the Scriptures are true, those who are holy or righteous in the judgment of God himself; those who are endued with the faith that purifies the heart, that produces a good conscience; those who are grafted into the good olive-tree, the spiritual, invisible Church; those who are branches of the spiritual, invisible Church; those who are branches of the true vine, of whom Christ says, "I am the vine, ye are the branches;" those who so effectually know Christ as by that knowledge to have escaped the pollutions of the world; those who see the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ, and who have been made partakers of the Holy Ghost, of the witness and of the fruits of the Spirit; those who live by faith in the Son of God; those who are sanctified by the blood of the covenant, MAY NEVERTHELESS SO FALL FROM GOD AS TO PERISH EVERLASTINGLY.
Therefore let him that standeth take heed lest he fall.
The capital letters above are added. The quotation allows no doubt to remain. Words could not be plainer. A saint, says Wesley, a real living spiritual child of God can fall and finally be cast into hell though Christ died for him.
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Bert Mulder
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Edmonton Alberta Canada
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05-30-2008, 12:37 PM
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Bert Mulder
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05-30-2008, 09:14 PM
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On CCEL you can find Wesley's commentary on the Bible. Just lookup some of the popular passages and you might find something useful.
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Devin Brian
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Vivian, Louisiana, USA
"The fall of man is written in too legible characters not to be understood: Those that deny it, by their denying, prove it." - George Whitefield |
05-30-2008, 09:16 PM
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I found a book the other day that contained quotes displaying Wesley's brand of Arminianism, next time I'm at the book store I'll grab the title for you.
j
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J. M. - Baptist - Ontario, Canada - Feileadh Mor "Nothing is more seductive for man than his freedom of conscience. But nothing is a greater cause of suffering."
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05-30-2008, 09:24 PM
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J. M. - Baptist - Ontario, Canada - Feileadh Mor "Nothing is more seductive for man than his freedom of conscience. But nothing is a greater cause of suffering."
The Brothers Karamazov |
05-31-2008, 03:57 PM
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Also check I Murray about Wesley / Whitefield. It must not be forgotten that J Wesley was not a Pelagian, unlike C Finney and his successors.
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Independent Reformed Baptist Church (NE England, nr. Durham)
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