I shared my new CD of Max McLean reading of Augustine's conversion with a friend. The friend questioned whether his conversion indicated a monergistic work as Augustine agonized over many years before submitting to the yoke of Christ, saying 'yes, but not yet'. How does this show Irristible Grace of monergism and why and how did he tarry so long before yielding his life up to God? I had thought he might have been converted but unable to deal with his sin of lust. Much confusion for me in this if someone could share their opinion it would be greatly appreciated!!

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Nancy L./ www.foundersbaptist.org
Spring, TX

Your will, Lord Jesus Christ! Nothing more... nothing less... nothing else.

I'm having trouble understanding the nature of the question.

Do I have this stated correctly. Are you wondering if a regenerated person can resist grace and, if so, how is grace then irresistible?

In other words, is the nature of the dialogue that Augustine admitted he was awakened to Christ but did not yet want to yield his flesh and, thus, remained unconverted for a period of time.

The notion of irresistible grace is not that men may resist the grace given by God but that, ultimately, a sinner awakened by grace will turn from his sin in repentance and embrace Christ for his righteousness. Grace is not prevenient, contra Rome or contra the Remonstrants, where a certain amount of life is given to the believer and he cooperates therein to add his faith to God's grace and thereby be saved. Rather, God elects a person where his heart is renewed and conscience awakened so that his sin becomes odious and the work of Christ is seen as the sole grounds for his acceptance before a Holy God.

Even with a regenerated heart, indwelling sin does inhibit a believer and he may come under its sway but, those who are Christ's are His. His intercessory work ensures that they will cast themselves upon Him and that the work He begins in them will be completed to their glorification.

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Rich
PCA, Northern VA
Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

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Yes, thanks so much, that is helping. I do need to ponder your answer further to comprehend its entirety. It did appear to me that God was drawing him but he was resisting until he decided to accept. So, are you saying then that he was regenerate but continuing to struggle with his sin all those years, as we do as well?

I know I didnt word it well and even am having trouble now seeing all than encompasses the whole of the problem! Thanks so much for helping me with this Rich!

This is my friends actual response after listening to the CD and is my effort to question where Augustine's salvation actually took place?

Those whom Christ draws will come to conversion; no one actually knows the time. Regeneration could occur today and conversion next week. Is it we who choose? The scriptures are clear:

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

One must receive. Is this synergistic? No! God forbid! Does the above scripture make it seem as if it receiving (choosing) is synergistic? Taken out of context, yes. But looking over the whole of scripture and taking into consideration the Gods character and attributes-never.

Grace is irresistible. What men call resistance is in fact pridefully sinful. Who can stay the hand of the Lord?

"All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, But He does according to His will in the host of heaven And among the inhabitants of earth; And no one can ward off His hand Or say to Him, 'What have You done?'

Additionally, as I have said many times before, there is the Ordo. Regeneration is not conversion and conversion is not regeneration. So, even though Augustine may have thought he was resisting, in fact God was putting him through the correct process for Augustines benefit and situation-all for the glory of God.

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Scott Bushey
Husband to Tina, father to Nicole, Danielle and Zoe
Member First Presbyterian Church of Margate PCA

Christiana, many Reformed have substituted the term "effectual calling" for "irresistible grace" in order to provide clarity. Perhaps this will help:

So "irrestible grace" simply means that man is not able to frustrate God's work of election. Whether the Holy Spirit brings a person to faith in Christ in one step, or through many, He will not fail to bring in Christ's elect.

As a side note (toward Scott Bushey), I do not think that regeneration temporally precedes conversion. I know that some Reformed (Berkhof) have taught that, but I am unconvinced that there are regenerate unbelievers. I would rather explain a lengthy duration of "drawing" as the common operations of the Spirit (WCF 10) followed eventually by the effectual calling.

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Charlie Johnson
Downtown Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, student

Thanks for those responses! I thought I understood the Ordo Salutis but then while listening to the tale of Augustine I admit to becoming to confused as to what and how it was happening with hiim!
Your explanations do help regain my perspective on this!

I would state that regeneration and conversion are both something that we see the fruits of after the fact. I think it's important to look for fruits of regeneration for those that claim faith but that we often place too much emphasis on religious experience in terms of attempting the time the day and hour of true faith. The Parable of the Sower even notes that apparent fruit often seems to be present in some. There may also be growth that is occurring that is beneath the surface of true soil.

I think this is one of the reasons that we're repeatedly enjoined to let the hidden things belong to God and concern ourselves with the revealed things. It has been revealed that regeneration is the work of the Holy Spirit and attends the reading and, especially, the preaching of the Word. It is nurtured by the means of grace in the believer and even our prayers are utilized in the Providence of God toward the end of the "gardening".

Thus, in my own life, I have had emotional religious experiences while a Charismatic Roman Catholic and as a Charismatic neo-Pentecostal but neither were attended by a knowledge of Christ and His work. When I encountered the true Gospel I do not recall a dramatic experience of my regeneration and conversion to be able to point to a date. Was it prior to my having had it explained fully to me (for I had heard the Gospel for years and years previously)? Was it after?

Truthfully, it doesn't really matter because, right now, I know where my hope lies and I know that the hatred I have of Sin and the love of Christ are fruits of regeneration. A comprehensive understanding of Providence and how God works all things together for the good leads me to believe that everything in my life, good or ill, was preparing me for His holy ends: my upbringing, my education, my vocation, etc....

Thus, in Augustine's case, he, like the Apostle Paul, was well educated and God used those gifts that He had given him and the circumstances which God had ordained for Him to use for the benefit of His Church. His mother prayed for Augustine for years and her earnest prayers were used of God such that, not only did Augustine have opportunity to hear the Gospel but even the subtlest of enjoinments to come unto Christ. It was inevitable for God had chosen him out from the foundation of the world.
Well, sure Augustine made real choices but God acted upon his will and affections through many means that we would be overwhelmed by if we ever were given the comprehensive understanding of them.

In the end, we need to think of God's workings as much larger than we typically focus upon. It is not that dramatic experiences are not worthy of marking and praising God for but so are all the seemingly small things that He does in His control of all things toward His glory and for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purposes.

I would say simply that monergism is shown in that Augustine did come to repentance and faith, the infallible effects of regeneration. Had the Father not drawn him, he would never have come at all. The timeframe and the vacillations along the way are not relevant to the core question: why did Augustine repent and believe?

As he would argue later on, if you say that it depends partly on him and partly on God, then, contrary to Romans 9, you could also say that it is not depend on God who shows mercy, but on Augustine who runs and wills.

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Ruben
Moderator
F.P.C.I.
Indiana

Vanities and disguises have covered us, and thereby we are naked; licenciousness hath inflam'd us, and thereby we are frozen; voluptuousness hath fed us, and thereby we are sterved, the fancies and traditions of men have taught and instructed us, and thereby we are ignorant.
John Donne

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In regards to the subject, here's an excellent short read by A. Kuyper:

"Old and New Terminology.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh."--John iii. 6.

Before we examine the work of the Holy Spirit in this important matter, we must first define the use of words.

The word "regeneration" isused in a limited sense, and in a more extended sense.

It is used in the limited sense when it denotes exclusively God's act of quickening, which is the first divine act whereby God ranslates us from death into life, from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son. In this sense regeneration is the starting-point. God comes to one born in iniquity and dead in trespasses and sins, and plants the principle of a new spiritual life in his soul. Hence he is born again.

But this is not the interpretation of the Confession of Faith, for article 24 reads: "We believe that this true faith, being wrought in man by the hearing of the Word of God and the operation of the Holy Ghost, doth regenerate and make him a new man, causing him to live a new life, and freeing him from the bondage of sin." Here the word "regeneration," used in its wider sense, denotes the entire change by grace effected in our persons, ending in our dying to sin in death and our being born for heaven. While formerly this was the usual sense of the word, we are accustomed now to the limited sense, which we therefore adopt in this discussion."

More here: Regeneration by Abraham Kuyper

I think perhaps it was the length of his struggle and how ongoing it was that lent confusion to the whole equation; thinking that God when regenerating a heart would not stretch out the process over such a period of time!
The responses here have been most helpful and I do thank each of you! Listening to Augustine's agony of the struggle yet seeming to know all the while he would be giving in totally at some point! I wept when he went to Monica with the news,rejoicing with her and so hoping the same will happen with my son at some point! My prayers will continue on as hers did! God is good!
Many blessings!
Thanks Scott for that timely article! Its a keeper!

My prayer is that the prayers that you lift up for your son with tears will likewise be used of God to bring your son to Himself.

Our God hears your fervent prayers.