Thread: John 3:16 Conference

Has anyone been keeping up with the John 3:16 Conference, being held at Johnny Hunt's church in Woodstock, GA? Live blogging is taking place at Challies Dot Com.

I found the following transcript by the blogger, in reference to a lecture given by David Allen (being a Presbyterian, I am not familiar with Dr. Allen), to be quite troubling:

Conclusion: “Should the Southern Baptist Convention move toward 5-point Calvinism, such a move would be away from, and not toward, the gospel.” This was met with a standing ovation.

There's something puzzling about naming this the "John 3:16 Conference." This reminds of a time in a seminary class (Intro to Historical Theology), where the prof had spent 45 minutes to an hour lecturing on the doctrines of grace, after which he fielded questions. One student in the class (a 60+ year old Methodist named Bill) raised his hand and said, "This just flies in the face of John 3:16," as if that verse undid everything else in Scripture. We thereafter dubbed his seat as the prestigious John 3:16 Chair of Erskine Seminary.

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

I like John 3:16 and its a good name for a conference

Originally Posted by Pergamum

I like John 3:16 and its a good name for a conference

I like John 3:16 too, but I don't think it's any more indicative of the church's mission, or the central truths of the Gospel than many other verses in Scripture - and it's unfortunate that in many circles it is the 'rallying point'. It cannot be read or understood out of context.

Originally Posted by Herald

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

Might happen. However, it's going to take a lot more than Johnny Hunt and his minions to run us out of the SBC. So he's president of the SBC...big deal. We look upon the humblest pastor of the smallest church to hold a hight position.

Such talk at conferences is blah, blah, blah.

Originally Posted by Ivan

Originally Posted by Herald

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

Might happen. However, it's going to take a lot more than Johnny Hunt and his minions to run us out of the SBC. So he's president of the SBC...big deal. We look upon the humblest pastor of the smallest church to hold a hight position.

Such talk at conferences is blah, blah, blah.

Ivan, may the Lord bless those SBC churches that remain faithful to the gospel of Christ.

Originally Posted by Herald

Originally Posted by Ivan

Originally Posted by Herald

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

Might happen. However, it's going to take a lot more than Johnny Hunt and his minions to run us out of the SBC. So he's president of the SBC...big deal. We look upon the humblest pastor of the smallest church to hold a hight position.

Such talk at conferences is blah, blah, blah.

Ivan, may the Lord bless those SBC churches that remain faithful to the gospel of Christ.

Amen!!

Originally Posted by Marrow Man

Has anyone been keeping up with the John 3:16 Conference, being held at Johnny Hunt's church in Woodstock, GA? Live blogging is taking place at Challies Dot Com.

I found the following transcript by the blogger, in reference to a lecture given by David Allen (being a Presbyterian, I am not familiar with Dr. Allen), to be quite troubling:

Conclusion: “Should the Southern Baptist Convention move toward 5-point Calvinism, such a move would be away from, and not toward, the gospel.” This was met with a standing ovation.

There's something puzzling about naming this the "John 3:16 Conference." This reminds of a time in a seminary class (Intro to Historical Theology), where the prof had spent 45 minutes to an hour lecturing on the doctrines of grace, after which he fielded questions. One student in the class (a 60+ year old Methodist named Bill) raised his hand and said, "This just flies in the face of John 3:16," as if that verse undid everything else in Scripture. We thereafter dubbed his seat as the prestigious John 3:16 Chair of Erskine Seminary.

Someone should let them know that the Southern Baptist Convention ws originally founded by Covenantal, Calvinist Baptists and not Arminians whom they considered in error.

Originally Posted by Herald

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

My guess is that Calvinism is at a higher ebb today in the SBC than at any point in at least the last 50 years, which is why we are seeing the friction. Why leave when things are moving in your direction? With the exception of the Caners, most of the vocal anti-Calvinists in the SBC are of the older generation who were trained when the seminaries were dominated by the liberals. We are thankful for their successful efforts to regain control of the convention from the liberals, and the fruit of those efforts are resulting in much more theological depth in seminary graduates today, even if they are not all 5 ptrs.

The church we are now attending is SBC. Sometimes I question whether it would be better off being independent (as I was in the past) or part of some other group, but there are serious issues in some "Reformed Baptist" circles as well, as I have noted here in the past. When you find the Shangri-la Baptist association, let me know. But I probably wouldn't join it since then it wouldn't be perfect anymore.

This is from Challies' blog on the mood of the conference:

The mood of the Conference, as best as I can determine thus far, does not seem to be vitriolic nor panicked in regards to Calvinism. From the conversations I have over-heard, Conference-goers tend to regard Calvinism as an attempt to draw systematic, logical conclusions from Scripture (rather than being based directly upon Scripture), and Conference-goers genuinely believe that Calvinists have come to wrong conclusions, which are contradicted by specific scriptural texts. Conference-goers seem to be looking to the speakers at this Conference to provide an exegetical basis from which they can offer a defense for their rejection of Calvinism.

I found this article about the conference linked at Monergism.com.

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=29318

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

My guess is that Calvinism is at a higher ebb today in the SBC than at any point in at least the last 50 years, which is why we are seeing the friction. Why leave when things are moving in your direction?

Grammar police!!

ebb

  <a href=&quot;http://dictionary.reference.com/audi...E0016100&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; /></a>  /ɛb/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [eb] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the flowing back of the tide as the water returns to the sea (opposed to flood, flow ). 2. a flowing backward or away; decline or decay: the ebb of a once great nation. 3. a point of decline: His fortunes were at a low ebb. –verb (used without object) 4. to flow back or away, as the water of a tide (opposed to flow ). 5. to decline or decay; fade away: His life is gradually ebbing.
Origin:

Originally Posted by Herald

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

Amen! I cannot imagine being offended by this thought, either. My church is still a member of the SBC but nominally. That's a decision made by the leadership and I'm with them.....but cannot see that the continued tension within the convention as a good thing.

Originally Posted by Herald

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

I've got an even better idea! It's time for you Baptists to become Reformed Presbyterians!

Originally Posted by Joshua

! It's time for you Baptists to become Reformed Presbyterians!

You forgot to preface that with...."at the risk of offending some of the Baptist brethren....:

Originally Posted by Herald

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

I agree especially when we are refered to as "Crazy Calvinists who worship Mohler" (happened to me from a top dude in the Texas Convention) or you have Falwell calling us heretics and worse than Muslims. This type of negativity can be absorbed only for so long.

I was once told by a fellow Baptist that "Al Mohler's just too theological."

That's like having a doctor who is just too darn medical.

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

My guess is that Calvinism is at a higher ebb today in the SBC than at any point in at least the last 50 years, which is why we are seeing the friction. Why leave when things are moving in your direction?

Grammar police!!

ebb

  <a href=&quot;http://dictionary.reference.com/audi...E0016100&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;><img src=&quot;http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; /></a>  /ɛb/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [eb] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the flowing back of the tide as the water returns to the sea (opposed to flood, flow ). 2. a flowing backward or away; decline or decay: the ebb of a once great nation. 3. a point of decline: His fortunes were at a low ebb. –verb (used without object) 4. to flow back or away, as the water of a tide (opposed to flow ). 5. to decline or decay; fade away: His life is gradually ebbing.
Origin:

Originally Posted by LockTheDeadbolt

I was once told by a fellow Baptist that "Al Mohler's just too theological."

That's like having a doctor who is just too darn medical.

Although this is a little , this reminds me of the Presbyterian pastor that once told me that he wasn't a theologian. He most likely meant that he wasn't one on the order of John Murray, Calvin, Bavinck, etc. The pastor that isn't a theologian needs to get out of the pulpit.

Originally Posted by Herald

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

Calvinism is on the rise in the SBC. Southern Seminary is now the largest seminary. I think it's a good time to stay! The reason these guys are being so vocal is that so many people in the SBC are becoming reformed (relatively).

-----Added 12/10/2008 at 09:51:29 EST-----

Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining

Originally Posted by Herald

At the risk of offending some dear SBC brethren, I believe that the time is not too distant for Founders churches to come out of the SBC. Align with like-minded churches and concentrate on the preaching of the gospel and the doctrines of grace.

I agree especially when we are refered to as "Crazy Calvinists who worship Mohler" (happened to me from a top dude in the Texas Convention) or you have Falwell calling us heretics and worse than Muslims. This type of negativity can be absorbed only for so long.

I think it can and should be absorbed as long as it takes. We can take abuse brother! We (calvinists) have been taking it for centuries! I believe it would be terrible for calvinists to leave now that things are moving in the right direction.

Manley,

Seeing how you are in Liberty/anti-Calvinist country and can keep positive, then I guess we can keep a positive outlook as well.