Is Calvinism the Gospel?

Benjamin · #1 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 02:58 PM

To many evangelicals, almost all, the 5 points of Calvinism is equated with the Gospel. I hold this position that the 5 points of Calvinism are in fact the doctrines of the Gospel. Yet, how is it then that Spurgeon for example could say that he was saved and was a complete Arminian? If Calvinism is the Gospel, then Arminianism is a false Gospel. If Arminianism is a false Gospel then how could Spurgeon have been saved as a complete Arminian? Also, if Calvinism is the Gospel, why do so many who claim to be reformed change their Gospel when they preach to the lost? Surely the same Gospel that we believe as Christians should be the same Gospel that the lost should hear?

Also, if Wesley preached a false Gospel of Arminianism, then how come so many Calvinists speak well of him as being a godly man?

toddpedlar · #2 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:02 PM

Where did you get the idea that Spurgeon was the least bit Arminian?

panta dokimazete · #3 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:06 PM

good question...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spurgeon

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

Benjamin · #4 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:09 PM

His own confession. He had the following to say,

"I remember, when I was converted to God, I was an Arminian thoroughly....I used sometimes to sit down and think, "Well, I sought the Lord four year before I found him."

Again, he had the following to say in one of his sermons,

"I have known some that, at first conversion, have not been very clear in the gospel, who have been made evangelical by their discoveries of their own need of mercy. They could not spell the word "grace". They began with God, but they very soon went on with an F, till it spelt very like "free-will" etc."

Poimen · #5 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:09 PM

I think he meant that Spurgeon was an Arminian before he became a Calvinist.

Benjamin · #6 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poimen

I think he meant that Spurgeon was an Arminian before he became a Calvinist.

Exactly. My question is the following. If Calvinism is the Gospel, as Spurgeon said, then how come he got saved through Arminianism, which would have to be heresy and a false Gospel? I believe that Calvinism is the Gospel...yet this question still raises some doubts in my mind. Of course he became thoroughly calvinistic in his thought...yet through his own confession he was saved as a complete Arminian....

danmpem · #7 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:15 PM

I have some parts of Iain Murray's Spurgeon Forgotten that I have been wanting to put on the PB. I guess now is as good of time as any; I'll get to it when I get home.

Benjamin · #8 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmpem

I have some parts of Iain Murray's Spurgeon Forgotten that I have been wanting to put on the PB. I guess now is as good of time as any; I'll get to it when I get home.

Cool. I've got that book in front of me now! Good book...Spurgeon was a mighty strong defender of the faith...very bold!

BobVigneault · #9 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:17 PM

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

etexas · #10 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:19 PM

What Bob-Cat said,

BobVigneault · #11 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:20 PM

Most folks are arminians when they are saved because by NATURE we tend toward works righteousness. This is true even after we are saved and therefore need to hear repeatedly, the Gospel. The Gospel is that God sent his Son into the world to save sinners. God has done all the work for His elect to come to a saving knowledge.

Calvinism does not save. Calvinism illumines.

Benjamin · #12 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

If Calvinism is NOT the Gospel, as you say, then how can you say that it contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other systematics? Also how most reformed theologians, If i am correct, understand the equation of Calvinism with the Gospel, is that the 5 points of Calvinism are the doctrines of the Gospel. That is my issue here.

BobVigneault · #13 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:26 PM

Calvinism contains a systematic summary of the Gospel which puts emphasis on the Sovereign work of God in salvation. Calvinism helps us to understand the Gospel but Calvinism is not the Gospel. Calvinism isn't perfect, the Gospel is.

Benjamin · #14 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

Let me ask another question. If Calvinism is NOT the Gospel, and it IS the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other systematics, then how is the Gospel PURER the the doctrines of Calvinism?

Gomarus · #15 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

. . .Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward. . .

Good points by Bawb. I would add, the five points of Calvinism are not "the gospel" per se. They summarize the doctrines of grace codified at the Synod of Dort. Benjamin, you are suggesting that one cannot come to saving faith in Christ without having accepted/understood the Five Points. I don't believe that is is true. Spurgeon was saved and subsequently became a Calvinist. In fact, that is my testimony.

Benjamin · #16 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

Calvinism contains a systematic summary of the Gospel which puts emphasis on the Sovereign work of God in salvation. Calvinism helps us to understand the Gospel but Calvinism is not the Gospel. Calvinism isn't perfect, the Gospel is.

But now you are equating the Gospel with Calvinism...alas...If Calvinism is a systematic summary of the Gospel, then it IS the Gospel. A summary of the Gospel, that helps us understand the Gospel?

I am even more confused now...

BobVigneault · #17 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:30 PM

Furthermore, God doesn't use the same labels that we use. You create a dichotomy between calvinists and arminians. A person can be saved even if he doesn't understand the mechanics of how it gets done.

In my monstrous ignorance I fell upon the work of Christ on the cross in total and utter helplessness, dumb as a stump, and I was saved.

Let's not get carried away with how much we know, salvation is still the work of God alone. God saves sinners.

Benjamin · #18 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:30 PM

If Calvinism is not the Gospel, then what did Spurgeon mean? Was he correct in what he said?

danmpem · #19 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

Bob, may I quote that when explaining Calvinism?

Gomarus · #20 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin

If Calvinism is not the Gospel, then what did Spurgeon mean? Was he correct in what he said?

He meant he was saved by grace through faith -- before he came to understand the doctrines of grace.

BobVigneault · #21 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:34 PM

Dan, those quotes are not mine. Those are the fundamentals that we have discussed here many times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmpem

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobVigneault

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

Bob, may I quote that when explaining Calvinism?