The PuritanBoard  

Go Back   The PuritanBoard > Theology > Theological Forum > Ecclesiology

Ecclesiology Discussion of Church Government, Polity and the like
that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:15)

» Online Users: 72
15 members and 57 guests
AltogetherLovely, Ask Mr. Religion, Bookmeister, Chippy, DMcFadden, KMK, Pergamum, puritanpilgrim, reformed trucker, RTaron, Simply_Nikki, Timothy William, Zenas
Most users ever online was 856, 07-06-2007 at 12:19 AM.
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2009, 01:31 AM
KMK's Avatar
KMK KMK is offline now.
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wrightwood, CA
Posts: 8,612
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 3,599
Thanked 1,319 Times in 758 Posts
Tithing as a Requirement for Voting

In chapter 3 of his book, Tithing and the Church, Gary North argues that churches should have a two-tiered membership, a communicant membership (which would require confession/baptism) and a communicant/voting membership (which would require tithing as well)

Are there any churches who do this? And if so, how does a church establish in fact whether a member is tithing or not?
__________________


http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/


"Preparing a sermon is like cooking a meal. You need pots and pans and utensils, but you don't bring them out to the table where people are eating." Derek Thomas


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2009, 06:17 AM
LawrenceU's Avatar
Puritanboard Doctor
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Deep in the heart of Dixie - Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 6,151
Thanks: 767
Thanked 2,922 Times in 1,454 Posts
Hm, the Mormons do.

I'm not sure I've ever heard of a church doing this.
__________________
We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2009, 08:23 AM
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 1,089
Thanks: 152
Thanked 233 Times in 153 Posts
I haven't heard of this happening.

I can't see the justification for it though. Either tithing is part of the moral law (which is Gary North's position) in which case it should be a requirement of membership, or it isn't (my position) in which case it should not be a requirement for voting. I do not think churches should arbitrarily add requirements for voting eligibility over and above what is required for membership.
__________________
T W Hopper
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church
Currently between churches since PRC closed here - attending Crossroads Christian Church.
Canberra, Australia.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Timothy William For This Useful Post:
Theoretical (02-16-2009)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2009, 09:48 AM
Re4mdant's Avatar
Reformed Dane
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Breum, Denmark
Posts: 6,346
Thanks: 2,713
Thanked 1,014 Times in 736 Posts
I have also not heard of this happening anywhere
__________________
Martin - Reformed
Husband to the most godly, honorable and loyal wife Line
Searching for a Church
Webpage www.5solas.dk
Free Online Reformed Seminary - http://www.tnars.net
Soli Deo Gloria
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2009, 04:23 PM
Rich Koster's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Browns Mills NJ
Posts: 2,326
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 621
Thanked 703 Times in 405 Posts
I don't know of any.
As far as substantiating tithing, a Christian man's word should be sufficient. If I was applying for membership and they wanted to see my W2's, 1099's, pay stubs or last years tax filings, it would red flag me in my spirit about trust issues.
__________________
Rich Koster
1689'er
Browns Mills NJ USA
Often Goofy Reformed Eccentric
Romans 7:14-25
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Rich Koster For This Useful Post:
Knoxienne (03-03-2009)
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Scott1's Avatar
Puritanboard Postgraduate
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 4,869
Thanks: 1,906
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,094 Posts
Quote:
Timothy William

Either tithing is part of the moral law (which is Gary North's position) in which case it should be a requirement of membership,
It would be interesting to know how this individual would interpret tithing.

If he went by strict application of the levitical law, a "tithe" was complicated in application. There were tithes on income, but separate tithes on the fruit of one's land, the fruit of one's animals, and another specifically for one's increase from year-to-year. It would require a significant amount of information and judgment would be required to apply it to for example, non agrarian income earners with pensions, annuities, deferred compensation, etc.
__________________
Scott
PCA
North Carolina



"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)"
Hebrews 10:23
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2009, 04:54 PM
ChristianTrader's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,664
Thanks: 517
Thanked 533 Times in 279 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy William View Post
I haven't heard of this happening.

I can't see the justification for it though. Either tithing is part of the moral law (which is Gary North's position) in which case it should be a requirement of membership, or it isn't (my position) in which case it should not be a requirement for voting. I do not think churches should arbitrarily add requirements for voting eligibility over and above what is required for membership.
I have not read the book, but I think the point would be to decide how to spend money etc. then you need to be putting money into the pot. Otherwise, one should not talk about how it should or should not be spent.

CT
__________________
Hermonta Godwin
Christ The King PCA
Raleigh, NC
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to ChristianTrader For This Useful Post:
KMK (02-13-2009)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2009, 06:18 PM
Glenn Ferrell's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Meridian, Idaho
Posts: 1,059
Thanks: 450
Thanked 799 Times in 284 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott1 View Post
If he went by strict application of the levitical law, a "tithe" was complicated in application. There were tithes on income....
Actually, as I've pointed on on another thread, there is no biblical requirement for tithing on income (wages, or profit from trade). There is a principle of proportional giving, which may be applied to income.
__________________
Glenn Ferrell
Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Boise, Idaho

http://sovereignredeemer.org

http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_de...formationidaho


Nec Tamen Consumebatur


The duty of magistrates...extends to both tables of the law, ... those laws are absurd which disregard the rights of God, and consult only for men. - Calvin, Institutes, IV:20:9
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2009, 06:55 PM
Scottish Lass's Avatar
Puritanboard Graduate
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 3,031
Thanks: 1,708
Thanked 534 Times in 402 Posts
Rich,
I would assume they would have the church treasurer (or whoever handles the money) substantiate the tithing of the members. Which creates a whole 'nother sticky wicket by iteself.
__________________
Anna
Wife of Tim/Marrow Man
Louisville, KY
Member of Midlane Park Presbyterian (Associate Reformed Presbyterian)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Scottish Lass For This Useful Post:
Pergamum (03-03-2009)
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2009, 09:56 AM
Rich Koster's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Browns Mills NJ
Posts: 2,326
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 621
Thanked 703 Times in 405 Posts
Sticky wicket indeed.

A tree is known by its' fruit. After a while you can discern a cheerful giver versus the Ananias and Sapphira type. Stingy people become obvious after a while. Also, so do those who toss something in the plate with strings attached to it.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2009, 11:05 AM
William Price's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 232
Thanks: 60
Thanked 141 Times in 43 Posts
When I give, I give according to 2Corinthians 9:6-7. To mandate a tithe, as it is promoted today, is simply not scriptural. The tithe is a tax on being a believer. If one has truly been converted, 10% is too small to give.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to William Price For This Useful Post:
Knoxienne (03-03-2009)
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2009, 11:18 AM
Pergamum's Avatar
The MacDaddy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,402
Thanks: 2,682
Thanked 2,837 Times in 1,470 Posts
Every January, for reasons of church discipline and to guard holiness, our church requires its members to submit their W-2, so that we can be good overseers of their souls....



Just kidding.
__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2009, 11:59 AM
cecat90's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Folsom, Ca
Posts: 246
Thanks: 44
Thanked 72 Times in 45 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Price View Post
When I give, I give according to 2Corinthians 9:6-7. To mandate a tithe, as it is promoted today, is simply not scriptural. The tithe is a tax on being a believer. If one has truly been converted, 10% is too small to give.


If one is going to follow the levitical law, he would have to follow it all the way (even circumcision). So, the 2 Cor 9:6-7 is the correct way, IMO, to look at someone who is tithing
__________________
Claudiu
Reformed Baptist
attending Immanuel Baptist Church
Sacramento, CA
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2009, 02:08 PM
KMK's Avatar
KMK KMK is offline now.
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wrightwood, CA
Posts: 8,612
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 3,599
Thanked 1,319 Times in 758 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Price View Post
When I give, I give according to 2Corinthians 9:6-7. To mandate a tithe, as it is promoted today, is simply not scriptural. The tithe is a tax on being a believer. If one has truly been converted, 10% is too small to give.
You say it is not scriptural to mandate 10%, but then you turn around and pronounce that it is scriptural to mandate more than 10%. Interesting.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to KMK For This Useful Post:
brianeschen (03-04-2009)
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2009, 08:30 PM
Glenn Ferrell's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Meridian, Idaho
Posts: 1,059
Thanks: 450
Thanked 799 Times in 284 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK View Post
Are there any churches who do this? And if so, how does a church establish in fact whether a member is tithing or not?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons). They have a tithing settlement meeting with every family every year and might ask to see your W-2. One can't get a pass to the temple, to be baptized for dead relatives or have your marriage sealed for eternity unless you tithe. Now that is more than taking away your vote!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2009, 01:37 AM
cecat90's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Folsom, Ca
Posts: 246
Thanks: 44
Thanked 72 Times in 45 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Ferrell View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK View Post
Are there any churches who do this? And if so, how does a church establish in fact whether a member is tithing or not?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons). They have a tithing settlement meeting with every family every year and might ask to see your W-2. One can't get a pass to the temple, to be baptized for dead relatives or have your marriage sealed for eternity unless you tithe. Now that is more than taking away your vote!
Interesting. I heard of this. Its also true, I think, that the one's who give more have more privileges. I know the FLDS are even more picky when it comes to this. My parents are from Romania, and my dad was sponsored to come in the U.S. by a family in Salt Lake City. Mormons are really structured in the hierarchy and when it comes to their money (from what my dad told me from his experiences while he was there)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2009, 08:55 PM
Julio Martinez Jr's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 136
Blog Entries: 5
Thanks: 29
Thanked 19 Times in 12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Price View Post
When I give, I give according to 2Corinthians 9:6-7. To mandate a tithe, as it is promoted today, is simply not scriptural. The tithe is a tax on being a believer. If one has truly been converted, 10% is too small to give.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. That text mentions nothing of the tithe but a simple principle of giving. Perhaps the heart is in the wrong place, and those who don't feel obligated in a joyous manner have a sinful heart. Regarding the text, there is no grounds to conclude that the tithe ought not to be imposed. If you hold to covenant theology, you are duty bound to hold to the validity of the tithe, since nothing is abrogated in the New Covenant unless the New Testament nullifies it. The question doesn't doubt the validity of the tithe but its due application.
__________________
Julio Martinez Jr.
Member of Grace Presbyterian Church (PCA)

My Blog
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;
because you have rejected knowledge,
I reject you from being a priest to me.
And since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children." Hosea 4:6, ESV
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Julio Martinez Jr For This Useful Post:
brianeschen (03-08-2009)
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2009, 09:01 PM
Rich Koster's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Browns Mills NJ
Posts: 2,326
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 621
Thanked 703 Times in 405 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Ferrell View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK View Post
Are there any churches who do this? And if so, how does a church establish in fact whether a member is tithing or not?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons). They have a tithing settlement meeting with every family every year and might ask to see your W-2. One can't get a pass to the temple, to be baptized for dead relatives or have your marriage sealed for eternity unless you tithe. Now that is more than taking away your vote!
The question stated Church, not cult
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.0

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2002-2008 PuritanBoard.com
Hosted by WebsiteMaven - helping ministries with web hosting advice, reviews, and design.
67 Westminster Abbey © Confessional Presbyterian Presses - used with permission.
Add Our Custom Button to your Google Toolbar

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69