The SBC and Elders

PuritanCovenanter · #1 (**permalink**) 10-22-2005, 03:55 PM

It looks like the SBC is growing in it's understanding concerning Eldership. Check this out. Someone is promoting a plurality of Elders. Elders in Congregational Life

pastorway · #2 (**permalink**) 10-22-2005, 04:03 PM

there are churches throughout the SBC that are elder led!

PuritanCovenanter · #3 (**permalink**) 10-22-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pastorway
there are churches throughout the SBC that are elder led!

Cool. I have been out of step from the SBC for many years. I didn't even know about Founders until a few years ago.

VanVos · #4 (**permalink**) 10-22-2005, 04:36 PM

Actually, I recently discussed this matter at a SBC meeting. It's good to see some in the SBC promote the plurality elders view.

Herald · #5 (**permalink**) 10-22-2005, 05:46 PM

Capitol Hill Baptist Church (SBC and part of the Founders Movement) is an elder run church.

[Edited on 10-22-2005 by BaptistInCrisis]

Archlute · #6 (**permalink**) 10-22-2005, 06:39 PM

I see that Mark Dever wrote the forward. A number of years back, I read a book entitled "Why I am a Baptist" in which he contributed and essay. I do not believe it was a Founder's Press title, rather a general call among the SBC for a renewal of "Baptist Distinctives". However, in that essay Dever stated that he believed Baptist churches should return to a "plurality of elders/elder led" polity, yet he specifically denigrated what he pejoritavely labeled "elder ruled" churches. Is this the Baptist tendancy towards autonomy rearing its oppressed head? He stated that a plurality of elders seems to be the biblical pattern, but is not the biblical pattern also elder rule (not tyrannical rule, but real authority with temperance and dignity)? This difference seemed to also come out in the debate between the Presbyterians and Independants at the Westminster Assembly. The Presbyterians stated that church authority, although ministerial and ecclesiastical, is a real and binding authority, while the Independents claimed that it was merely suggestive and of a conciliar nature.

As many of you know, reformed theology links the offices of Christ to the officers of the church, so that the office of Prophet is tied to the minister of the Word, the office of King reflected in the godly rule of the elders, and the role of priest given to the diaconate. So in the OPC's BCO there is a section describing the duties of "ruling elders". Is the reformed understanding compromised by the rejection of this elder rule? Are Baptists perhaps working under the understanding that they are making reforms where reformed theology has no warrant for its claims? Regardless, it certainly is good and well that there are more Baptists taking up thoughts on polity, but should the consideration of it be pressed further than it is currently?

[Edited on 10-22-2005 by Archlute]

Semper Fidelis · #7 (**permalink**) 10-23-2005, 12:44 AM

Fascinating.

I'm stationed in Okinawa right now and the pickings are very slim here unless one is comfortable with liberal, pentecostal, or charismatic theology and I am not.

I attend an SBC Church out in town and am struggling with whether I should continue to attend. The issues are diverse but I'm staying for the time being out of a sense that God may be calling me to serve this congregation. There are many hungry people at the Church and I love worshipping with Americans, Japanese, Filipinos, and the other missionaries here. Anyhow, pray for me.

It's encouraging to see the SBC talk about this because this issue is at the heart of why the congregation is so weak and immature with two Pastors that left the Church in an immature state and no real discernible leaders or anyone very knowledgeable in the Word after nearly 15 years. When a Church is seeking to grow men to the Eldership it gives the Godly something to aspire to and measure themselves against. The single pastor/multiple deacons model creates a cult of personality where, often, it is the Pastor who is expected to know the Word and there is little expectation for the men to know the Word.

Herald · #8 (**permalink**) 10-23-2005, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SemperFideles
Fascinating.

I'm stationed in Okinawa right now and the pickings are very slim here unless one is comfortable with liberal, pentecostal, or charismatic theology and I am not.

I attend an SBC Church out in town and am struggling with whether I should continue to attend. The issues are diverse but I'm staying for the time being out of a sense that God may be calling me to serve this congregation. There are many hungry people at the Church and I love worshipping with Americans, Japanese, Filipinos, and the other missionaries here. Anyhow, pray for me.

It's encouraging to see the SBC talk about this because this issue is at the heart of why the congregation is so weak and immature with two Pastors that left the Church in an immature state and no real discernible leaders or anyone very knowledgeable in the Word after nearly 15 years. When a Church is seeking to grow men to the Eldership it gives the Godly something to aspire to and measure themselves against. The single pastor/multiple deacons model creates a cult of personality where, often, it is the Pastor who is expected to know the Word and there is little expectation for the men to know the Word.

Rich - considering your dynamic, stay put in the best situation you can find that will allow you to minister to the body of Christ. Be with God's people locally. I understand it can be difficult not to find a church you agree with theologically. But the body is also greater than our desires (as difficult as that may sound). I pray that the Lord blesses you beyond measure as you sacrifice for the kingdom.

To God be the glory!

Semper Fidelis · #9 (**permalink**) 10-23-2005, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis
Rich - considering your dynamic, stay put in the best situation you can find that will allow you to minister to the body of Christ. Be with God's people locally. I understand it can be difficult not to find a church you agree with theologically. But the body is also greater than our desires (as difficult as that may sound). I pray that the Lord blesses you beyond measure as you sacrifice for the kingdom.

To God be the glory!

I will never forsake fellowship for the "ideal". The issue is somewhat complex and I don't want to bring it forward in a forum. If I didn't have the same compulsion you express above I would be going elsewhere already.

bond-servant · #10 (**permalink**) 10-23-2005, 09:41 AM

There are still a large number of Southern Baptist churches (at least in East Tennessee) that are not elder led. I actually can count on my fingers the ones that are, and I've lost count of the ones that aren't.

Dh and I have recently come out of the Southern Baptist Church.

jfschultz · #11 (**permalink**) 10-23-2005, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by puritancovenanter
It looks like the SBC is growing in it's understanding concerning Eldership. Check this out. Someone is promoting a plurality of Elders. Elders in Congregational Life

I would not take this as indicating a trend in SBC churches. Any trend along these lines would be among the Reformed Baptists in the SBC, which is a rare breed.

One local SBC minister (a closet Calvinist) got in to deep trouble in his church by trying to develop an eldership there.

govols · #12 (**permalink**) 10-24-2005, 08:04 AM

I know in talking with my elders there may be a trend in some, maybe just a few, to go to elders as a way to usurp the congregational vote on, usually, Wednesdays.

PuritanCovenanter · #13 (**permalink**) 10-24-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by govols
I know in talking with my elders there may be a trend in some, maybe just a few, to go to elders as a way to usurp the congregational vote on, usually, Wednesdays.

This is why I think the Presbyterian form is better yet. A bit more balance in the congregational life and congregational accountability from outside of the congregation.