Hi everyone. I looked through old posts and I couldn't find anything specific on my question. My friend has recently left the PCA for the REC b/c of recent theological changes. He's found a REC congregation which he enjoys. He's looking to attend seminary and will probably end up at either Cranmer House in Texas (where Bishop Royal Grote is president) or Reformed Epsicopal Seminary in Philadelphia. I'm not really familiar with either the REC or either of these two seminaries. Could somewhat explain the theological climate within the REC and their seminaries? Does it vary from church to church? It seems like the FV has made some serious inroads into their churches. It also seems like many churches have embraced a more Anglo-Catholic approach to worship and theology. Any information would be very helpful. Thanks!

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Jordan Harris
Dickson City, PA
Faith Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (ARP)
My Blog

Oops. Bishop Royal Grote is president of Cranmer House not Ray Sutton. Sutton teaches there.

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Jordan Harris
Dickson City, PA
Faith Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (ARP)
My Blog

I have been impressed with the REC, even though I would strongly oppose the issue of government and a few other issues. I have a copy of the REC prayer book and they are not anglo-Catholic but would follow the 39 Articles. They broke from Protestant Episcopal Church in 1873 and followed some reforms based on the 1662 BOCP. I am not sure there is an influx of FV heretics flocking into the REC. Many would go into the anglo-Catholic movement or other Anglican communions.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

Thanks Stephen. I too am impressed by aspects of the REC. Nevertheless, the REC guys out of Dallas are definitely going in an Anglo-Catholic direction. I remember Dr. Clark saying that in the 70's and 80's, the REC was more consistently Reformed. He said that in later years, the REC became influenced by the Oxford movement with all its Anglo-Catholic implications. I'm just curious about RE institutions, and whether or not they've gone in an Anglo-C direction or not.

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Jordan Harris
Dickson City, PA
Faith Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (ARP)
My Blog

There have been moves in the last few years exactly toward a more anglo catholic position from what I've read online (mainly on BBWarfield from one ex REC correspondent). They have courted a more anglo-catholic group for merger haven't they? And Presbyterianism aside, I would never trust a denomination with Sutton in it, he of Tyler ARC tyranny fame.

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Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
• The Blue Banner Archive

The Regulative Principle: Samuel Miller gives a succinct statement of this principle when he writes that since the Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference.”

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I did not realize that. I worshipped in an REC congregation in Katy, Texas, a few years ago and was impressed with the minister, whose father was the bishop, Gortke I believe. I met one of the deaconesses and she said their congregation regularly attended Ligoner Conferences. They were a solid group, but perhaps some are going the way of Rome. Anglo-Catholics are nothing more than papists in Protestant garb.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

What a sad commentary on the REC. It appears that they are so loosely connected they have no Reformed roots.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

I have contacts within the REC and whilst this is historically true a number of congregations are moving in an AC direction. This is not helped by their unity with the Anglican Province of America. The following is taken from their Joint Affirmation of the Reformed Episcopal Church and the Anglican Province of America

Baptism
It is through baptism by water in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost that an individual dies to sin and rises to new life in Christ. Through this rebirth, or regeneration, baptism washes away original sin and opens the door to God’s grace. At baptism, a person is grafted into the Church, the Body of Christ, and becomes a branch of the Vine. Furthermore, in Baptism a visible confirmation is given of God’s forgiveness of the individual’s sins, and one’s adoption as a son of God and an heir of salvation.

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Richard
CofE
UK

As a member of the REC, I think it is a stretch to say that the REC is going Anglo-Catholic. There are some parishes leaning more high church but that does not equal Anglo-catholicism. As far as FV is concerned, I personally haven't come into contact with any espousing that view (not to say there may not be some around but I haven't experienced any sort of major inroads being made by the FV.

While the REC has been historically "low church", what has happened is that the REC has moved more "center" on worship. Some fall on the low church side with black gowns, others are more high church with alb and chasuble. The mission where I served for a time, cassock, surplice and stole (tippet for the daily office) were worn.

Cummins Theological seminary still uses the works of Calvin, Berkhoff, Bavinck, Murray, etc for their coursework. Cranmer house still uses similar materials. We actually have quite a few former presbyterians in our ranks - Dr. Curtis Crenshaw, the Rt. Rev. Daniel Morse, as well as a number of presbyters. Further, the new REC BCP is based on the 1662 and has restored the Black Rubric:

Regarding the merger with the APA - that was set to the back burner a few years ago (the merger was supposed to have taken place this year) in favor of a more loose association via FACA ( Federation of Anglican Churches in the Americas). While the REC still works with the APA, there hasn't been much more talk of merger that I know of so I honestly don't know where it officially stands.

As far as Ray Sutton, I now little of Ray Sutton the presbyterian (only what little I read in reference to Tyler ARC thing which was referenced) so I can only speak for Ray Sutton, REC Bishop. I have found him to be a humble and gracious minister of the Gospel.

Katy. TX - that would be St. Matthias which is now the cathedral parish of the Diocese of Mid-America. The Rev. Jason Grote is the son of the Rt. Rev. Royal U. Grote.

All this being said, as for me personally, I am most certainly NOT an anglo-catholic

My

P.S. The church I am serving in now is a Nigerian parish. The REC is working towards full communion with the Church of Nigeria (Anglican). I still retain my membership in the REC

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Steven Bittle
Postulant
St. Michael's Church
Reformed Episcopal Church
OKC, OK

"Verbum Domini Manet in Aeternum!"

George Stanley Faber self-identified as Anglo-Catholic...but I digress

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Richard
CofE
UK

He wasn't a very good Presbyterian; which might explain where he is now.

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Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
• The Blue Banner Archive

The Regulative Principle: Samuel Miller gives a succinct statement of this principle when he writes that since the Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference.”

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? Joining PB's Politics & Government Forum

I have considered taking a few classes at Cramner House since it is about 30 minutes from my house.

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Travis Graham | Member | Christ The King (PCA) | Houston, TX

"The world will bow,
and knees will be broken,
for those who don't know how"
- Woven Hand

Richard, is the Anglican Province of America anglo-Catholic? I went to seminary with a man who was preparing for the ministry in the Anglican Province of America. My wife and I worshipped in a APA congregation once and it was so formal and they were tied to the prayer book, my wife said, "Why did we worship there? It felt like a Roman "Mass." I was surprise because I was expecting more of a low church service. I am sorry to hear about the direction of the REC.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

Thanks for the clarification. I thought that was odd. Yes, St. Matthias in Katy was where I worshipped one Sunday. I had a nice converstation with Jason Grote who was very Reformed. It was low church and the people were very warm. The Sunday I was there he was engaged to be married, so it was a few years ago.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

Cramner has had a good reputation as a solid seminary. I would differ with them on their distinctives, but it is a good seminary.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

I will probably finish my M.Div with Cummins Theological Seminary. I have been impressed with their curriculum and believe them to be solidly reformed.

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Bryan Michael Maes [Blog - Facebook - MySpace]
St. Mark's on the Mesa Episcopal Church
Albuquerque, NM

I make a distinction between Anglo-Catholics and the Anglo-Romish types that pass themselves off as Anglo Catholics.
Many of the Anglo-Catholics are really very close to being Jansenists, except that they hold a Lutheran view of justification by faith. Some, I will admit, go beyond this and really more akin to western rite orthodox then they are to either Roman Catholics or Reformation Protestants
Most of the Anglo-Romish types would go over to Rome if she would permit the ordaination of married men and stop being so liturgically sloppy.
The high churchmen I know in the REC are not even close to being Anglo-Romish.

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Thomas Yeutter,
Mason, MI
Member St. Patrick's Anglican Church, Comstock, MI

Ezra 7:10 For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the Lord and to do it and to teach its statues in Isreal.

There is an REC church here in Houston that is a haven for many postmill-theonomic types since there is not a PCA church that leans that way.

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Travis Graham | Member | Christ The King (PCA) | Houston, TX

"The world will bow,
and knees will be broken,
for those who don't know how"
- Woven Hand

A good number of REC churches practice paedocommunion as well.

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Chris
OPC member
Now attending Grace Community Baptist Church
Mandeville, LA

"Faith alone saves, but it is a faith that works." - S. Lewis Johnson

I was not aware of that. It is sad to hear.

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Thomas Yeutter,
Mason, MI
Member St. Patrick's Anglican Church, Comstock, MI

Ezra 7:10 For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the Lord and to do it and to teach its statues in Isreal.

The REC church in my area practices paedocommunion. The pastor also preached for 15 minutes on the legitmacy of using