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Thread: Pliny the Younger on Deaconesses

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    Davidius is offline. Inactive User
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    Pliny the Younger on Deaconesses

    For one of my classes I recently read one of Pliny the Younger's letters to the emperor Trajan about the Christians in his province. At one point he said that he had to have two women interrogated through torture to get some information, and he says that the two women were called deaconesses.

    Quo magis necessarium credidi ex duabus ancillis, quae ministrae dicebantur, quid esset veri, et per tormenta quaerere.
    I believed it all the more necessary to investigate by means of torture what the truth was from two servant women who were called "deaconesses [ministrae]."
    What are the ministrae he's talking about?
    Last edited by Davidius; 12-09-2008 at 04:03 PM.
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    panta dokimazete is offline. Puritanboard Postgraduate
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    wives of deacons, of course!

    -JD
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    Deaconesses were quite common in the early church, perhaps through the twelfth century in the West. We find canons and decrees about them in places such as the Council of Nicaea in 325 (canon IX) and the fourth council of Carthage in 398, where the following was stated:

    "Widows and dedicated women (sanctimoniales) who are chosen to assist at the baptism of women, should be so well instructed in their office as to be able to teach aptly and properly unskilled and rustic women how to answer at the time of their baptism to the questions put to them, and also how to live godly after they have been baptized." (Schaff).

    They were women whose duties revolved entirely around woman, appointed to office for those roles which they thought it appropriate only for women to do (i.e., certain things pertaining to baptism, especially when practiced by immersion), and for various other tasks.
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    What did these women do at baptisms?
    Pergamum


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    I'm not sure what exactly they did for baptism. My encounters with the concept of the ancient deaconnesses are limited to when they appear in canon law and in the canons of church councils--I know of them legally, not practically.

    But, patching together these sources, it appears that they were frequently employed (with reference) in the catechizing of other women, in preparing them to answer questions at baptism, and in assisting the women who were immersed where it would be "inappropriate" for men to be involved. Mostly, however, they were employed in the catechizing and teaching of women, and in attending to their needs.

    Sorry I can't be of more help; you will find frequent mention of them in the church fathers, and in the decrees of many councils. According to the historian Schaff, for information regarding the history and role of the ancient deaconness, the best place to start is in Thomassinus, Ancienne et
    Nouvelle Discipline de l’ Eglise, I Partie, Livre III, but I have never read this. (Hopefully you can read French...) Again, sorry I couldn't help more.
    Paul Korte
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    Davidius is offline. Inactive User
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    Quote Originally Posted by panta dokimazete View Post
    wives of deacons, of course!

    It's unlikely that this is the case. Whereas Pliny says they were known among Christians as ministrae, he himself refers to them as ancillae, slave women. This is apparently because he saw them referenced as "servants" and assumed that they were slaves. Our word "minister" is the same in form as it was in Latin, and was sometimes used in pre-Christian literature to refer to slaves, meaning "attendant" or "servant." Ministra is the feminine form.
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    Lets take into consideration that in languages such as greek and latin, there exist the feminine and the masculine form of a word. So the words ministry, deacon(english for servant) pertains to either male or female. A good example of this in english is the words waiter/waitress. Therefore, it is no surprised that the early church (greek/latin) used deaconess for female servants. For this reason, it does not mean that although for the church it is o.k. to have female servants or deaconess to help within the church, it does not mean that they are to preach/teach, be ordained, and to have authoirty over men.
    Gil Garcia
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolaGratia View Post
    Lets take into consideration that in languages such as greek and latin, there exist the feminine and the masculine form of a word. So the words ministry, deacon(english for servant) pertains to either male or female. A good example of this in english is the words waiter/waitress. Therefore, it is no surprised that the early church (greek/latin) used deaconess for female servants. For this reason, it does not mean that although for the church it is o.k. to have female servants or deaconess to help within the church, it does not mean that they are to preach/teach, be ordained, and to have authoirty over men.
    Your post is a little hard to understand, but from what I get of it, your contention has more to do with the nature of diaconal responsibilities than whether there is an office of "deaconess." Are you saying that there is a such thing as a deaconess, but that is an unordained office with no teaching capability?
    Davidius
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    Brian Schwertley has done research on the topic of women deacons, "A Historical and Biblical Examination of Women Deacons" and mentions Pliny the Younger and the comments you quote:

    A Historical and Biblical Examination of Women Deacons

    Basically, the clear trajectory of church history has been that women did not serve as (I Timothy 3) Deacons. They were assistants to the (I Timothy 3) Deacons and certainly engaged in diaconal (mercy) work.

    From the historical record (going back to the Apostles), the closest women got to being in an office to do diaconal work was the I Timothy 5 "servant widow"- an unordained office, supported by the church for 60 year old destitute widows. The office appears to have been under the authority of the (I Timothy 3) Deacons, historically speaking. I Timothy 5 explicitly lays out biblical qualifications for this office.

    Because the terms for (the office of) "Deacon" and for "servant" are basically the same in the original languages, it can be confusing as we try to interpret history. But keep in mind that the historical record strongly suggests that women were never understood to have the office of Deacon until the modernism (liberalism) of the past 100 years or so. They were assistants to them and were servants of many kinds in the church.

    Women have long served in the church, and in many times of church history did mercy ministry, but not in capacity as I Timothy 3 Deacons and under authority of the offices of bishop, elder and deacon- offices given to men only, in accordance with Scripture.
    Scott
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