I am a reforming evangelical who has been in search for a good solid reformed church to switch to.

Within close proximity to my house there is a small RPCNA church which is in transition (no pastor and dwindling attendance). After visiting this church once, I don't feel inclined toward this particular church. There is also a pretty solid PCA church within a couple of miles of my house and small OPC church about 15 minutes away.

Both churches are on the smaller side (the PCA seems to average 50-60 people a week and the OPC church had about 30 in attendance when I visited), which doesn't bother me at all. The OPC church runs a tighter liturgy with a Sunday School/Bible study hour right afterward which goes through a few questions of the WSC followed by an in-depth study of the Bible (currently Ezekiel). The PCA church has a somewhat more relaxed liturgy which is preceded by a Sunday School/Bible Study hour which is currently discussing the book "Un-Christian" and its implications to the Christian witness. Both churches appear to adhere to the WCF, sing from the Trinity hymnal and preach using the redemptive-historical method.

I've read many of the threads that compare and contrast the PCA with the OPC. I pretty much have a good grasp on what differentiates these two denominations, so I don't want to rehash that topic. What I would like is for PCA people and OPC people comment on what they like or don't like about their respective denominations (e.g., liturgical style, worship style, preaching style, etc.).

Thank you.

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Carl Gobelman
Long Grove Community Church (Evangelical)
Vernon Hills, IL
Blog: http://newcreationperson.wordpress.com

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."

Carl, there's so much in the way of differences between churches in both denominations that the overlap will make it almost impossible to comment on your specific case. I'd suggest going to both for several Sundays, and try to get in on whatever midweek fellowship/Bible Studies they have.

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Tim Vaughan
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian, OPC,
Santa Maria
California

I'll echo what Tim said. I've been a member of six different PCA churches, and while I have been a member of only one OPC church, I have visited many, and have seen the workings of presbyteries of both. From what I have seen, you would probably find a larger variation in practice for the PCA, and my initial impression is the OPC is more conservative in some ways (I doubt very seriously if you would find a skit at an OPC church, I have seen PCA churches doing skits in the worship service. Watch, now someone comes on and says they have seen a skit in an OPC church. )

What I would recommend is that you attend the local church, talk with both the pastor and the elders of the church. Get to know them. Joining a church requires vows, and those are not to be taken lightly.

So much do I not think membership vows are to be taken lightly, that I would highly recommend you speak to your church leadership about being released because of the understanding you have come to hold. (I take it you had to take vows when you joined your church.) If your present church understands your position, finds that it is not what they want, and is willing to release you, then you would go to the new church in a much better position than if you just stopped attending your old church and started attending the new.

Membership is taken more seriously in a presby church than most others I've seen (though I would believe our reformed baptist brethren would be equally as concerned about membership ... proper discipline is one of the marks of the true church).

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Brian Withnell
Deacon, OPC
Leesburg, Virginia

You cannot train for war in the midst of a battle. Prepare before the battle starts; if the battle is long and hard, you will wish you had.

I hear what you're saying. I have already composed an official letter stating my position and my disagreements with my current church. I have withheld sending it until I am completely sure I want to sever my relationship with them (that and the fact that my wife doesn't completely share my views either).

I agree. Within the PCA, certainly, there's such a range of styles I don't think I could give fair comment about what I like/dislike stylewise. Aside from style, one thing I do appreciate about the PCA is its effort as a denomination to establish a presence in some of America's largest and most secularized cities.

If I were comparing two congregations, both doctrinally strong, I'd probably start looking for other signs the Spirit is at work. How well do members love each other? Is their faith also compelling them outward to good works that result in praise for God? There's plenty of dead orthodoxy in both denominations to beware of.

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Jack K.
PCA, worshiping with some fine Baptists in Colorado

In the spirit of charity and believing the best of one's neighbor, particularly those in the household of faith, let me say...

The PCA, OPC, and RPCNA are all solid, biblical reformed denominations. You're really blessed you have such a choice.

The question for you is, where can I glorify God the most?

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Scott
PCA
North Carolina


"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)"
Hebrews 10:23

If everything seems equal in your eyes, I'd go for the closest in proximity to home.

But, to answer your Q. What I like about the PCA churches that I have been a member in is good sermons, solid Biblical preachers, shepherding pastors (especially in the smaller of the two that I have been a part of), approachable elders, women's fellowship and family fellowship opportunities(and thus, a means to make friends), strong Sunday school programs (for both adults and children). Good, reformed hymn selections--without praise bands or fluff. (Though the one church does have "special music" a few times a year.)
I like that individuals can and do differ on theological points (ie: celebrating "Christmas") and you are free to hold your own view. I love how family-focused both of my churches have been.

What I dislike about the PCA is its sometimes-reputation of being less-Reformed than the OPC or the RPCNA. I totally disagree with this sentiment, especially in particular or individual churches and in denomination standards. Perhaps some churches do get away with being less-than confessional, but not the majority. I think some people get their pet "tenets" of Reformed faith (psalms singing only or head coverings or beards or denim skirts or homemade dresses, you name it) and esteem themselves as Truly Reformed and consider churches that look more like mainstream America to be only "Evangelical," or something.

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Shalom,
jessi
PCA
Steelers fan exiled to Virginia


“Whatever your heart clings to and confides in, that is really your God.”
Martin Luther

Prior to my present ARP church, I've been in 2 OPC churches and 2 PCA churches covering a period of about 20 years with the majority in the OPC. I also visited several of these churches in travels/vacations. Both are good, solid denominations.

If I had to differentiate the two, I'd have to say the OPC churches and PCA churches I attended in the north were very similar. After moving to Atlanta, I visited several PCA churches and found them to be quite varied in the theological depth of the teaching and preaching while the OPC was what consistent with what I had experienced up north. People in the south seem to "church-hop" alot more than they do up north which may have influenced my impressions.

I'd also say there is a greater depth of theological teaching in the OPC which is something I currently miss.

I can't say there was anything that I didn't like about either denimonation.

But as it has been said, you will need to visit each and determine which one is most suitable.

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Michael Masztal
Ruling Elder, Chapel By The Sea, ARP
Melbourne Beach, FL

WHAT!!! I would for there to be a RPCNA near me, and what do you do??? Take it for granted!

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~ Charles Stephen Barribeau ~
Christ Presbyterian Church , OPC (They sing alot of Psalms!)
Original Westminster Standards (I need to study more...)
The Puritans were best! Also... I NEED TO READ MORE!!!
Philipians1:29(KJV) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Janesville, Wisconsin (In the fellowship of Bob Vigneault and Matt+Megan Meisberger)

I'm sorry. I'm just not sure I could adhere to exclusive psalmody. Part of that is because I'm coming out of a church environment that practiced contemporary worship, so going to a cappella psalm singing is a bit of a shock for me.

Without commenting on the merits, you know the difference between PCA/OPC and RPCNA?

Wine, women and song.

(temperance, women deacons, exclusive psalms- RPCNA does them, PCA/OPC does not)

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In Christ's love and service

Mr. Tim Cunningham,
BMus. (Trombone Performance), University of Toronto
Dip. CS, Regent College, Vancouver
Member, First Baptist Church
Vancouver, BC
------------
"I once sat in darkness, and waited for the moon to rise.
I once sat in darkness, and waited for the son to shine.
I once sat in darkness, when all the light I'd waited for was gone.
Then Jesus came, and now the only true light, ever, shines in me."
– John Deacon -

That must be an old one. Given the number of PCA churches that have deaconesses these days.

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Edward
Deacon
PCA
Texas

I like the sound of the OPC church better but you should pray about it.

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Rev. Andy Eppard
Associate Minister
First Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Springfield, MO

Now that's the funniest thing (all good humor has it's basis in truth) I've read in a week!

Carl, if you find that both churches are something you could honestly throw yourself into whole heartedly, if they were the only choice around, I'd pick the one closest to home - it enables you to throw yourself in more often.

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Warren
Member, PCA
South Carolina

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek"
Romans 1:16

I grew up in the Free Methodist Church of Canada so I too was used to contemporary worship before joining my current RPCNA church. The first couple of weeks I was really irritated with EP and no instruments but it really grows on you. Now I'm belting out the psalms with the best of them! (Notice that I do not say that I am skilled... just loud)

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David J. Houston
Member of Ottawa Reformed Presbyterian Church
RPCNA
Kanata, Ontario

The RPCNA does not have a vow against alcohol for clergy or for members. This was taken out of the Testimony (thank God) in the mid-90s.

And as for the women deacons comment that someone made about the PCA- I guess, at least we have the ability to call a duck a duck instead of pretending!

Happy church hunting. I know the saints at the Prairie View RPC (they actually called me to be their pastor). They are a great group and would be very encouraged to see another Reformed guy show up! But I am sure that the OP and the PC would be good choices too!

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Pastor Nathan Eshelman, Los Angeles, CA
Reformed Presbyterian Church
PRESBYTERIAN THOUGHTS
Los Angeles Reformed Presbyterian Church
RPCLA Sermons Online
Puritan Reformed Seminary

When did the PCA allow women decons? I have a copy of the Book of Church Order and it is clear that only men are to be called to the office of Deacon. We do have a few that are trying to press the issue but they are going to be told "No" and the PCA is not going to change their position. Have you heard something different?

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Alan Hughes
PCA
Lake Zurich, Illinois

If you think I'm a Hyper-Calvinist, God planned that thought before the foundation of the Earth. If you try to tell me that God only planned some things and not all things, then your problem is with God not me.

I've been to the PCA church which you are referring to. Given also what I know about the Presbytery in the Chicago region in the OPC, I would suggest going to the OPC church.

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Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Father of Oliver
Master of Bruce
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

What can I say, I like blogs!

I haven't heard of any. If there are some they should be disfellowshiped because that is clearly unbiblical.

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David
PCA
Richardson, Texas

Saving faith is an immediate relation to Christ, accepting, receiving, resting upon Him alone, for justification, sanctification, and eternal life by virtue of God's grace.
--C.H. Spurgeon

Just for the record, the PCA does not have ordained women deacons anywhere. That's our Book of Church Order.

There are a few, but high profile churches, that have been "commissioning" women assistants and calling them that, and in a very few instances, they have in effect, substituted a group of commissioned women as a substitute. This violates our polity, the vows of officers, and the doctrine of ordination but at this time, anyway, is in-house loving discipline that must be done.

PCA believes the local church is governed by deacons and elders, men only as qualified by I Timothy 3 and Titus I.

Just responded to your PM.

I was a member of that OPC church for several years and can recommend it without any reservation. I don't know enough about the PCA or RPCNA churches to comment.

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Patrick
MDiv, RTS Jackson
Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
"Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes

I'd recommend you visit all three churches more than once- two, three, or four times each- pray and pick the one to which God seems to be leading. Sometimes, people pick churches too fast, without careful consideration. Finding a congregation where you can remain for a time is good for you and them.

Might be good to tell your current church you are considering a change, are faithful in regular worship during the interim, will make up your mind within a definite period of time, and notify them when you are ready to request membership in another congregation.

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Glenn Ferrell
Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Boise, Idaho

http://sovereignredeemer.org

http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_de...formationidaho


Nec Tamen Consumebatur


The duty of magistrates...extends to both tables of the law, ... those laws are absurd which disregard the rights of God, and consult only for men. - Calvin, Institutes, IV:20:9

Even if you are convinced about a particular church, I'd say six months or so is a reasonable transition period - gives you enough time to go around to, say, one church for a month or two, then another if you feel the need to.
Also do not forget to keep the spiritual needs of your better half in mind. While you're to lead her and potentially make the "final call," also think about which church, if it matters, would be most spiritually edifying for her, even if not for you. Just another of the many sacrifices we must sometimes make.

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BJ Mora
Grace OPC, Modesto, CA
Reformed & Presbyterian Churches & Denominations in North America