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Ecclesiology Discussion of Church Government, Polity and the like
that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:15)

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:11 PM
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I believe the world becomes the kingdom of Christ. As of now, it is still Satan's until Christ's return.
Then Jesus was wrong when after the resurrection he said:
Matt 28:18
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Note: The Revelation verse you quote is speaking of Christ's resurrection too, and his taking his seat at the right hand of God..That is a fulfilled scripture.

Also, I thought there was a verse that said something like.
The earth is the Lord's and the fullness of it.


The earth never has and NOW certainly does not belong to Satan....(where do you get these crazy ideas....)
You don't see Satan winning the entire human race with the deception of Adam?
The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:11 PM
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So your are telling us that Christ has given up the authority which God the Father gave him and has entrusted it to Satan until he returns?
The view stems from the following verse as translated by JND:

1 John 5:19 "We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the wicked one."

The problem is that they make it say more than it does.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:12 PM
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Again, with due respect, you need to prove that.
I will try but I don't read Revelation very much but what do you all believe the 2nd coming is about?
If you are interested I could send you a paper that I am finishing up on the exegesis of Matthew 24 which may be of help to you.
Send it my way (but how many pages we talking?)

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:13 PM
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So your are telling us that Christ has given up the authority which God the Father gave him and has entrusted it to Satan until he returns?
The view stems from the following verse as translated by JND:

1 John 5:19 "We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the wicked one."
I see. That would explain things.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:14 PM
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The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.
No timeline?
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:14 PM
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The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.
No timeline?
Sorry, but what do you mean?
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:15 PM
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The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.
No timeline?
I believe the heel was bruised at Calvary and the head was wounded at the same time but Satan isn't dead yet and that he will finally be thrown into the pit with all non elect (non-believers)
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:16 PM
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I will try but I don't read Revelation very much but what do you all believe the 2nd coming is about?
If you are interested I could send you a paper that I am finishing up on the exegesis of Matthew 24 which may be of help to you.
Send it my way (but how many pages we talking?)

BryanSWiley@gmail.com
Will do...

It is only 15 pages double spaced. A real easy read...though the hardest thing to do was keep it short. I had a page limit that I could not go over.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:19 PM
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I see evil everywhere guys and that's my evidence Satan still runs the joint. When Christ comes back, there is a new heaven and earth devoid of all remnants of Satan's activity. The victory at Calvary has not fully come into fruition. We still have more saints to be born (and reborn) for one thing.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:20 PM
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If you are interested I could send you a paper that I am finishing up on the exegesis of Matthew 24 which may be of help to you.
Send it my way (but how many pages we talking?)

BryanSWiley@gmail.com
Will do...

It is only 15 pages double spaced. A real easy read...though the hardest thing to do was keep it short. I had a page limit that I could not go over.
I have the same problem with writing: Keeping it to the point and brief!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:21 PM
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I see evil everywhere guys and that's my evidence Satan still runs the joint.
You are yet to demonstrate that Satan ever ran the joint in the first place. Further, even though Satan is currently bound it does not mean he is not active.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:23 PM
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Daniel,

I can handle credo paedo disputes but I actually try not to be afraid when I think of Christians running the world (before Christ returns to be sure)

Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:23 PM
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Sin is a seperate thing from Satan. Sin caused satan to fall. Just because there is sin in the world does not mean that Satan rules it.
imo, Satan could be destroyed and sin would still exist in the world. Christ is waging war and subduing the nations (he already took care of satan). Sin is the issue with the problems today...let's not give satan to much credit.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by staythecourse View Post
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The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.
No timeline?
I believe the heel was bruised at Calvary and the head was wounded at the same time but Satan isn't dead yet and that he will finally be thrown into the pit with all non elect (non-believers)
Okay. But if Satan's head was crushed then who wins in history. Christ and those united to him or Satan and his followers?
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:24 PM
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Daniel,
Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.

Autonomy frightens me!!!
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:27 PM
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Daniel,

I can handle credo paedo disputes but I actually try not to be afraid when I think of Christians running the world (before Christ returns to be sure)

Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.
At the present time the thought of Christians running anything also frightens me. They think that they are fit to take over the civil government - which is the most dangerous of all forms of government - but look at the mess their own lives, families, and churches are in. Because we are refusing to govern ourselves under God we are being governed by tyrants. The government at the top is a reflection of the government at the bottom.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:28 PM
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Daniel,
Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.

Autonomy frightens me!!!
Exactly. It always makes me laugh when I hear pietists bewailing the crimes of Christendom. Yes there were mistakes made in the past, but Christendom was a lot better than Revolutionary France, Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia or the current abortion holocaust in the west.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:29 PM
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I see evil everywhere guys and that's my evidence Satan still runs the joint.
You are yet to demonstrate that Satan ever ran the joint in the first place. Further, even though Satan is currently bound it does not mean he is not active.
That is so wild. I have never heard that Satan doesn't have the world now. I read Scripture through that lens.

Where should I start. Give me a few minutes because I literally would need a starting verse. This is embedded in me and I would like to see in myself where I have developed this notion Scripturally (meaning I want to find the root verse(s) that apparently makes me interepret the world around me. We have really different worldviews based on who has the world now. I am waiting for Christ to finish the job and you have him already doing it from time immemorial (is that right or am I misreading you?)
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:29 PM
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Daniel,

I can handle credo paedo disputes but I actually try not to be afraid when I think of Christians running the world (before Christ returns to be sure)

Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.
So you think Stalin would be a nicer ruler than those who advocate a limited govt with a 10% tax?
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:31 PM
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As I wrote that I can say, yes, he did since he was crucified before the creation of the world.

But I'm still waiting for all sin to be removed (from me a believer and the world of unbelievers which is doomed)
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:32 PM
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I see evil everywhere guys and that's my evidence Satan still runs the joint.
You are yet to demonstrate that Satan ever ran the joint in the first place. Further, even though Satan is currently bound it does not mean he is not active.
That is so wild. I have never heard that Satan doesn't have the world now. I read Scripture through that lens.

Where should I start. Give me a few minutes because I literally would need a starting verse. This is embedded in me and I would like to see in myself where I have developed this notion Scripturally (meaning I want to find the root verse(s) that apparently makes me interepret the world around me. We have really different worldviews based on who has the world now. I am waiting for Christ to finish the job and you have him already doing it from time immemorial (is that right or am I misreading you?)
John 12
Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

My question, when did that now take place. Satan is dethroned.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 05:33 PM
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Daniel,

I can handle credo paedo disputes but I actually try not to be afraid when I think of Christians running the world (before Christ returns to be sure)

Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.
So you think Stalin would be a nicer ruler than those who advocate a limited govt with a 10% tax?
No, every world government is doomed. What frightens me is the vehemence the sword that can be used in the name of Christ. It doesn't sting as bad if a non-professing man kills me, but a "brother's" sword really stings.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:35 PM
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I have never heard that Satan doesn't have the world now.
God is sovereign. Christ crushed Satan at the cross. Christ's kingdom shall expand from shore to shore. Satan's kingdom shall do the opposite.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:35 PM
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