The Nicene Council - Statement of Faith

Very good podcast this week from Nicene Council on this issue, pro and con. There are some other great programs as well.

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1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

I know the ep dude.

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Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
• The Blue Banner Archive

The Regulative Principle: Samuel Miller gives a succinct statement of this principle when he writes that since the Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference.”

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? Joining PB's Politics & Government Forum

I was just at the non ep dudes house this past saturday.

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1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

I know the ep and the non ep dudes' Creator.

Who is the non EPer?

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I'll send you a PM.

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~James Helbert~, Wytheville, VA
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS
TheBibleAlone.com / The Edinburgh Inn
"Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” - Zechariah 3:2

The non EPer's #1 Objection was a total let down (respectfully).

He also stated (paraphrased): "I would not object to singing only the Psalms."

But, wouldn't that go against his claim to hold to the RPW? Because, if he believes that the singing of uninspired Psalms is authorized, then it follows he believes it's commanded; thus, he should be adamantly against the exclusive singing of the Psalms, since it doesn't (according to his understanding of the RPW) include that which he apparently believes is commanded (uninspired hymns).

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Does he look at the singing during the feast of Tabernacles? i.e. the covenant renewal ceremony where Pss. 81, 95 and 65 were sung as well as the celebration of Yahweh's enthronement?

Does he take a canonical approach to the Psalter?

BTW: Hughes Old's is good on this;

preview it here.

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Richard
CofE
UK

But couldn't it be the case that God commands the singing of songs, generally, and that, within this commanded category, uninspired songs are authorized? But, at the same time, God's command to sing songs could be fulfilled by singing only inspired psalms. Not to argue the substance of this, but I think it isn't inconsistent with the RPW.

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Evie B.
Attending RPCNA
Cambridge, Massachusetts

"Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert." --Isaiah 43:18-19 (ESV)

Maybe, but God does command the singing of specific songs, calling them spiritual psalms, hymns, and songs. So, either this means Psalms (from the Psalter), Hymns (Watts, et al), and Songs (Shout to the Lord), or Paul is categorizing the Psalms and/or using the infamous Triadic expression. The non EPer would hold to the former, thus they should reject the latter. Maybe I'm just missing it. I'm ready for the Revs. Webb and Winzer EP Debate!

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

To honest, I've never heard this worded "spiritaul psalms, hymns and songs. Who translates it that way? I've always read it psalms, hymns and spiritual songs?

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J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

Check Out My Blog: http://reflectjoy.blogspot.com/

According to several scholars the spiritual applies to all three nouns.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

This makes sense, too. I guess I am just assuming that even if the non-EP position is correct, the inspired psalter still contains all three types of songs. The argument that Paul is only referring to those categories within the psalms makes sense and may be the correct interpretation of the passage -- I really don't know. But if it isn't, it would not be inconsistent with the RPW to say that hymns and spiritual songs could be either inspired or not inspired. Non-EP could still be incorrect exegesis of Ephesians 5:19, of course. It's just unclear to me the issue must be so dichotomized -- that hymns and spiritual songs must be either all inspired or all uninspired.

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Evie B.
Attending RPCNA
Cambridge, Massachusetts

"Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert." --Isaiah 43:18-19 (ESV)

Evie, please forgive me. I'm back and forth between the PB and doing other things, so maybe I'm quiet confused. What I'm saying (and please forgive me if you already know this and I'm just an idiot) is that if the non EPer believes that Eph. 5 and Col. 3 include the Psalter and non-Canonical Hymns, then he shouldn't be okay with a church that sings only the Psalms. So, I wasn't really trying to argue EP so much as I'm trying to understand how the non EPer, in good conscience, could say that he would be okay with singing only the Psalms, in light of the fact that He believes the RPW and believes that non-Canonical hymns are authorized (thus commanded) in worship.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I see what you are saying. If psalms = the psalter and hymns and songs = something else, then clearly, we are commanded to sing both songs that are part of the psalter and songs that are not. I am just arguing that psalms, hymns, and songs could consist of both inspired and uninspired songs. It is clear, as I understand it, that certain of the psalms are labeled as hymns and songs. If so, a non-EPer could consider that either an inspired hymn or song (from the psalter) or a non-inspired song could fulfill the commandment. But maybe no non-EPer actually thinks this!

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Evie B.
Attending RPCNA
Cambridge, Massachusetts

"Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert." --Isaiah 43:18-19 (ESV)

As someone who is a non-EPer, I believe we should sings Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. To me that means we should sing from the Psalter, sing from other Scriptures since they are the inspired Word of God and any new hymns or spiritual songs that may have been written over the course of history, as long as they are theologically in accordance with the Scriptures. In other words, we should not sing songs that say nothing, because that would be a violation of the command in Ephesians to teach and admonish one another with Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.

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J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

Check Out My Blog: http://reflectjoy.blogspot.com/

I believe that the interpretation of "spiritual songs" is important. We are wont to anachronistically read our understanding of terms back into the scriptures. As far as I know, the term "spiritual" does not simply mean "religious," or "non-physical," or "pious," as we use it today, rather "of the Holy Spirit." A spiritual gift is a gift given to us by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual song would be a song given by the Spirit, not merely a pious song written by us.

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DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

Even if Eph. 5 and Col. 3 refer to the Psalter (which I believe they do) are we resticted to singing the Psalter alone? What about the Odes of Solomon (100-200 A.D)?