I was wondering if I could get feedback on my current status with getting this church started.

I have been told by our denomination that in order to get funded and be considered a mission church we need to have a core group of 5 to 6 families. The problem with that though, is while I am getting very positive responses to the concept of the church being planted here (this is a fast growing area and everything on paper says plant here), I am unable to get people to commit to being part of a "core group" and meet in our home till we get rolling.

As I see it, there are a number of reasons for this, and without detailing them all, I will say in summary that people are willing to attend something concrete, but something conceptual is too much of an unknown for them. Essentially I am looking for needles in a haystack here, trying to find committed Christians who aren't involved in a local church that are so fired up with the concept of planting a Reformed church in this town that they are willing marry themselves to the idea of getting it launched. Meanwhile, time keeps marching on and follow up with interested parties keeps yielding the same question "when are you going to start worship on Sundays?"

As you can see this is quite frustrating for me.

My background is business and this whole "core group" notion is foreign to me. I mean if I were going to open a restaurant in town, I wouldn't conceive the idea, spread word around town and then expect a dozen or so people to come eat at my house on Thursday nights until we get the restaurant open. Of course not, I would rent a place, advertise heavily and open the doors.

As I see it now, my family (and another family that has been with us since the start) have all that we need to get Sunday services started. I have plenty of friends that are involved in other churches but are more than willing to pitch in to get us off the ground. Finances aren't an issue as we can get going for less than a few hundred dollars. Location isn't an issue as we already have a place reserved for when we need it.

So my questions are: Why is the core group so important to have before the church starts Sunday services? Could not a core group be gathered from those that attend reguarly on Sunday morning and become captured by the vision of the church?

Sorry to ramble here for a while. Hope you all can help.

Different denominations may have difference approaches to Church planting. In 1995 I was appointed Church Extension Minister in Newtownards, Northern Ireland. All I had was a piece of ground. I started knocking doors and talking to people. Three months later we started services and five years later the congregation was ready to go forward to call a Minister. By that time 275 families had joined the church. We did not have core group or initial group of families.

I am not sure if this is helpful.

Yours in Christ,

__________________
David Porter
Presbyterian Church in Ireland
Minister of Second Dromara Presbyterian Church
Dromara, County Down, Northern Ireland

Do you happen to be in the PCA?

__________________
Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia

Can the RPs borrow you?

__________________
Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

I do think that a core group is important. Paul did not plant churches alone, he had an apostolic band. When we plant churches it is often easier to take 2 or 3 families from the old church and use them to plant the core group.

For one thing, it is important to have a core group so that people joining the church are attracted more to the assembly rather than the dynamic personality of the church planter.

Plus, there is such a thing as "critical mass" and visitors are weirded out if they visit the new church in town and discover it is merely the church planter and his wife and 9 kids meeting in a store front. A few more families can add the appearance of legitimacy.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

I don't think they could aford me!

David and Daniel, I was curious what is the difference between your two denominations? I assume both of them are covenanters and hold to theonomy?

Neither are officially Theonomists - I plough a lonely furrow on that issue; in fact I know of only 2 other Theonomists in the whole of Ireland. Though I am sure there are others who might be sympathetic in both denominations

The difference between the PCI and RPCI is that the Covenanters are exclusive psalmody, no musical instruments and hold to the descending obligation of the Scottish Covenants. Some in the PCI might hold these views as well, but it is not the official position of the denomination.

Can we have a discount?

Stephen, I am sure Daniel can answer for himself but I will venture an answer as I see it.

Second Dromara Presbyterian Church is a congregation of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland and we have about 550 congregations. PCI was formed in 1840 by the coming together of the Synod of Ulster and the Succession Synod. The first Presbytery of the Synod of Ulster dates back to 1642. We are a confessional church with madatery subscription to the Westminster Confession of Faith by all Elders, teaching and ruling. We were originally committed to unaccompanied Psalm singing but Paraphases were introduced in the late nineteenth century and a first Hymn book before the end of that century. We still have one congregation committed to exclusive Psalmody.

Second Dromara was established in 1843 as a plant from First Dromara. Rev W J Patton was the longest serving minister and famous for writting the book "Pardon and Assurance and Peace with God."

I understand that the Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church was also a break away from First Dromara. The Reformed Presbyterians are noted for continuing to hold to the unaccompanied singing of Psalms and a committment to covenanting principles.

Daniel can tell more about them.

I hope this is helpful?

Your in Christ,

Daniel

The labourer is worthy of his hire!!!

I guess that has to mean no.

Our congregation was basically a group of discontents who left 1st Dromara over a dispute concerning the calling of a minister. Thankfully, they did not start there own denomination, but were eventually brought into the Reformed Presbyterians. The origins of the RPCI denomination are somewhat different.

I agree. The core group need not start right off with Sunday services. The core group of our church plant met for a short while on Sunday evenings as small group Bible study. We invited folks interested in helping us get a church planted to meet for Bible study and prayer. A few of those families came to pray and study with us, but were clear that they were only there for support. After a few months of this, we had prayed through a clear vision of what God wanted us to do, and we began planning for our first Sunday worship. As others who were timid saw that we had direction and vision, they joined us.

Though this is not the only way to do it, our prayer/Bible study times really solidfied our group and gave us a clear vision of where we were going.

__________________
J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

Check Out My Blog: http://reflectjoy.blogspot.com/

Thank you for the helpful information. That is quite a number of congregations. Do you have congregations outside of Ulster?

Thanks for the explanation. I assumed that if you held to the descending obligation of the Scottish Covenants you were a Theonomist. The RPCNA is officially Theonomist, so I thought your denomination would be as well.

As far as I am aware, the RPCNA is officially theocratic, but not everyone is a Theonomist (in the Bahnsen-Rushdoony mould) though some are. The RPCUS, on the other hand, is officially Theonomic - but they are a totally different denomination.

I have never actually met another Theonomist, just talked to them by e-mail and phone.

Stephen, in answer to your question regarding PCI, "Do you have congregations outside of Ulster?", yes, we have congregations in both Northern and Southern Ireland. We have 21 Presbyteries and three of them are outside Northern Ireland. (Donegal, Dublin and Munster and Monaghan)

In Northern Ireland we have several different Presbyterian denominations but that is another story.

Greetings in the Saviour,

Based on what you've shared, I sense that there is a need in you for knowledge and clarity about church planting. If you think planting a church is like starting a restaurant, then it may imply that you see worshiping believers who may be part of your plant as mere patrons, and that you're approach to starting a church is corporate business strategy. And there are many churches who have "successfully" planted themselves using such an approach. Whether these churches are biblically successful or secularly successful is the critical question.

If you want to be secularly successful, then sure, start a new church using all your business savvy strategies. And the number of clients/patrons/customers will roll in. If you want to be biblically successful, however, training and rethinking is needed for you to see why the business approach is unacceptable. And denominations vary in their funding support. If you find the denomination approach to funding your plant as not lining up with your business mindset, then you'll have to either change your way of thinking to one that is more biblical (in my opinion) or find a different denomination.

__________________
Will Shin
Rockville, MD

Tfelice:

So...any updates? How's it coming?