The PuritanBoard  

Go Back   The PuritanBoard > Theology > Theological Forum > Ecclesiology

Ecclesiology Discussion of Church Government, Polity and the like
that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:15)

» Online Users: 72
13 members and 59 guests
Caroline, ChristianTrader, DMcFadden, dudley, glorifyinggodinwv, johnbugay, Knight, Ruby, Simply_Nikki, SolaGratia, WAWICRUZ
Most users ever online was 856, 07-06-2007 at 12:19 AM.
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 09:31 PM
Puritan Sailor's Avatar
Puritanboard Professor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lisbon, NY
Posts: 5,885
Thanks: 421
Thanked 635 Times in 294 Posts
Modern "Home Church" resources/critiques

I'm looking to understand the modern "home church" movement. I would appreciate any input as to:

1) who the major proponents are,
2) what's the usual line of argumentation or appeal for them, and
3) if there are any good Reformed/evangelical critiques out there (preferably men who have had success at bringing these people back into the church).

__________________
Patrick
MDiv, RTS Jackson
Pastor, Grace Presbyterian Church (OPC), Lisbon, NY

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.
"Let us not please ourselves that we have deep understandings, but let us shew our understandings by our practice." Richard Sibbes
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 09:42 PM
austinww's Avatar
Puritanboard Sophomore
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Marcos, Texas
Posts: 868
Thanks: 379
Thanked 207 Times in 133 Posts
I was given a book called Ekklesia advocating it a couple years back. The basic line of argumentation was that we should meet in homes because the early church did. A good response should note that the early church first met in the temple, and then the synagogues, and only after they were kicked out did they start meeting exclusively in homes.

You also have to distinguish between "home churches" as a movement and churches that meet in homes, but are otherwise regular churches - the latter can be okay, if done properly. The modern home church movement tends to under-emphasize corporate worship as a worship service. They're very informal, which sometimes results in neglecting elder leadership and the reading and preaching of the Word and the use of the sacraments.

I'm sorry, but I don't have any good response resources.
__________________
Austin
EE student at Texas State University
Member of Church of the Cross (PCA) in San Marcos, TX
Ps. 8:3-4 "When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?"
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to austinww For This Useful Post:
Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:01 PM
KMK's Avatar
KMK KMK is offline.
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wrightwood, CA
Posts: 8,601
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 3,594
Thanked 1,317 Times in 758 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor View Post
I'm looking to understand the modern "home church" movement. I would appreciate any input as to:

1) who the major proponents are,
2) what's the usual line of argumentation or appeal for them, and
3) if there are any good Reformed/evangelical critiques out there (preferably men who have had success at bringing these people back into the church).

1) Frank Viola and George Barna

2)

Quote:
Should a house of worship be a home? Contending that many modern believers secretly wonder why there isn't something more to "church," Viola suggests a return to the early Christian model of organic house churches. Biblically grounded and intensely practical, this radical proposal calls for a more vibrant, integrated, and active community of faith. 208 pages, softcover from Cook. Product Description from Viola's "Reimagining Church"
Quote:
Many Christians take for granted that their Sunday morning worship service is rooted in the New Testament, but why does the church in the New Testament seem very different from our own expressions of corporate worship? Frank Viola and George Barna come to the startling conclusion that most of what Christians do in church is rooted more in pagan culture than in the New Testament. Product Description from Viola and Barna, "Pagan Christianity"
3) I don't think theologians take the house church movement seriously enough to critique it. That said, Viola and Barna are not the norm in my experience. I came out of the house church movement and it is filled with serious Christians who have outgrown their liberal, 'Purpose Driven' church. They desire more from church because they have been starving for so long. The problem is, they don't know exactly what they want more of.

Often in liberal churches those who become hungry for the Word of are looked upon with suspicion for fear they might upset the apple cart. They soon find themselves on the outside of a fellowship they used to be a part of. They feel 'let down' and sometimes even 'abused' by the church and jump to the conclusion that 'all churches are the same'.

These are they types of house churchers you want to get into your congregation. Make it known in your community that you are a strong Bible preaching church and just be patient. You will have to have extra charity with them and give them time to trust you.
__________________


http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/


"Preparing a sermon is like cooking a meal. You need pots and pans and utensils, but you don't bring them out to the table where people are eating." Derek Thomas


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to KMK For This Useful Post:
austinww (10-15-2009), Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009), Rev. Todd Ruddell (10-15-2009)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:07 PM
Blue Tick's Avatar
Puritanboard Graduate
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Thankful...
Posts: 3,238
Thanks: 640
Thanked 1,057 Times in 606 Posts
In short. People who embrace the "Home Church" movement typically are REACTING to the current condition within evangelicalism. They've been burned, abused, poorly taught and really are just "Burned Out" on church. This is at least in my experience folks who embrace it. I feel sorry for them because they've swung the pedulum to one extreme to the other.
__________________
John
Member
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Blue Tick For This Useful Post:
austinww (10-15-2009), KMK (10-15-2009), Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:09 PM
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lacombe AB Canada
Posts: 27
Thanks: 1
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Why We Love the Church: In Praise of Institutions and Organized Religion - Kevin DeYoung and Ted Kluck
__________________
________
Roger
URCNA
Lacombe, AB
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to bisonrancher For This Useful Post:
Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009)
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:16 PM
kvanlaan's Avatar
Puritanboard Professor
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,828
Thanks: 1,703
Thanked 1,498 Times in 841 Posts
Harold Kamping, major proponent, I believe.
__________________
Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
Ontario, Canada
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to kvanlaan For This Useful Post:
Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:17 PM
armourbearer's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 7,334
Thanks: 916
Thanked 5,328 Times in 1,952 Posts
Gary Gilley's books "This Little Church ..." deal with the non-institutional emphases in modern ecclesiology from a traditional evangelical perspective. They help to show the sociological and ideological influences coming to bear on both the market and stay-at-home model of church.
__________________
Yours sincerely,


"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to armourbearer For This Useful Post:
John Lanier (10-15-2009), KMK (10-15-2009), Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:40 PM
TaylorOtwell's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fort Smith, AR
Posts: 1,012
Thanks: 261
Thanked 542 Times in 229 Posts
In my experience, their practice are spontaneous lay preaching is usually defended from 1st Corinthians 14:26-40.
__________________
Taylor W. Otwell, Husband to Abigail
Member, Fellowship Bible Church
Fort Smith, Arkansas
Family Blog
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to TaylorOtwell For This Useful Post:
Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 06:22 AM
Puritan Sailor's Avatar
Puritanboard Professor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lisbon, NY
Posts: 5,885
Thanks: 421
Thanked 635 Times in 294 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor View Post
I'm looking to understand the modern "home church" movement. I would appreciate any input as to:

1) who the major proponents are,
2) what's the usual line of argumentation or appeal for them, and
3) if there are any good Reformed/evangelical critiques out there (preferably men who have had success at bringing these people back into the church).

1) Frank Viola and George Barna

2)

Quote:
Should a house of worship be a home? Contending that many modern believers secretly wonder why there isn't something more to "church," Viola suggests a return to the early Christian model of organic house churches. Biblically grounded and intensely practical, this radical proposal calls for a more vibrant, integrated, and active community of faith. 208 pages, softcover from Cook. Product Description from Viola's "Reimagining Church"
Quote:
Many Christians take for granted that their Sunday morning worship service is rooted in the New Testament, but why does the church in the New Testament seem very different from our own expressions of corporate worship? Frank Viola and George Barna come to the startling conclusion that most of what Christians do in church is rooted more in pagan culture than in the New Testament. Product Description from Viola and Barna, "Pagan Christianity"
3) I don't think theologians take the house church movement seriously enough to critique it. That said, Viola and Barna are not the norm in my experience. I came out of the house church movement and it is filled with serious Christians who have outgrown their liberal, 'Purpose Driven' church. They desire more from church because they have been starving for so long. The problem is, they don't know exactly what they want more of.

Often in liberal churches those who become hungry for the Word of are looked upon with suspicion for fear they might upset the apple cart. They soon find themselves on the outside of a fellowship they used to be a part of. They feel 'let down' and sometimes even 'abused' by the church and jump to the conclusion that 'all churches are the same'.

These are they types of house churchers you want to get into your congregation. Make it known in your community that you are a strong Bible preaching church and just be patient. You will have to have extra charity with them and give them time to trust you.
Oh yes, I'd forgotten about Barna. Thanks for the reminder.

The reason I ask is that the home church movement seems to be picking up in this area, and it's usually associated with the homeschool movement. Is that how you initially came into the movement as well? I just didn't know if there some big names in the homeschool movement that were advocating home-church as well.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 08:27 AM
KMK's Avatar
KMK KMK is offline.
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wrightwood, CA
Posts: 8,601
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 3,594
Thanked 1,317 Times in 758 Posts
Interesting question. I don't know of any who explicitly promote house church. However, it seems that they often do go hand in hand. One of the signs that you have outgrown your liberal church is when you begin homeschooling your children. This is one of those things that 'rock the boat' and can quickly turn you into an outsider.

If there is a connection, it might be that both the home schoolers and the house churchers feel strongly enough about guarding the autonomy of the family they are willing to cast off the traditional church if need be. They end up in the same place for different reasons.

There may be some VisionForum/Family-integrated types who explicitly advocate house church but I don't recall.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to KMK For This Useful Post:
Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009)
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 08:42 AM
jwithnell's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 1,252
Thanks: 155
Thanked 555 Times in 339 Posts
I recall being in a church plant where we met in homes Sunday evenings until we had a more established meeting place. That was an incredibly close time and to this day, if you get any of us together from the era, we're likely to be a bit nostalgic. But, I don't think that is the overall Biblical pattern, except, perhaps, for doing what you can to get a church up and going.
__________________
JWithnell
Member Bethel OPC
Virginia
http://learningyesican.blogspot.com/
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 08:56 AM
nasa30's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hixson, TN
Posts: 165
Thanks: 35
Thanked 56 Times in 36 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK View Post
One of the signs that you have outgrown your liberal church is when you begin homeschooling your children. This is one of those things that 'rock the boat' and can quickly turn you into an outsider.

If there is a connection, it might be that both the home schoolers and the house churchers feel strongly enough about guarding the autonomy of the family they are willing to cast off the traditional church if need be. They end up in the same place for different reasons.

There may be some VisionForum/Family-integrated types who explicitly advocate house church but I don't recall.
This is a very true statement. Homeschooling can quickly make you an outsider and "trouble maker" in some churches. "you don't want to invite them, they home school" has been heard by some of our friends.

I think it is Doug Wilson and not Doug Phillips of VF that you might be thinking of. I have listened to some Doug Phillips messages where he makes the point that you should be in a church and not hide at home.
__________________
Serving Christ in Tennessee.
Judson
Elder - Reformed Baptist
Hixson, TN

www.christschurchofchattanooga.com
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 08:59 AM
Puritan Sailor's Avatar
Puritanboard Professor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lisbon, NY
Posts: 5,885
Thanks: 421
Thanked 635 Times in 294 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwithnell View Post
I recall being in a church plant where we met in homes Sunday evenings until we had a more established meeting place. That was an incredibly close time and to this day, if you get any of us together from the era, we're likely to be a bit nostalgic. But, I don't think that is the overall Biblical pattern, except, perhaps, for doing what you can to get a church up and going.
Just to clarify my question in the thread, by "home/house church" movement, I'm refering to those folks who are disassociating from the the visible church and choosing rather to have independent worship at home.

I have no problem with church plants or local congregations meeting in a house if that's what is necessary for the situation.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 09:30 AM
Amazing Grace's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Holland, Michigan
Posts: 1,538
Thanks: 245
Thanked 204 Times in 168 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwithnell View Post
I recall being in a church plant where we met in homes Sunday evenings until we had a more established meeting place. That was an incredibly close time and to this day, if you get any of us together from the era, we're likely to be a bit nostalgic. But, I don't think that is the overall Biblical pattern, except, perhaps, for doing what you can to get a church up and going.
Just to clarify my question in the thread, by "home/house church" movement, I'm refering to those folks who are disassociating from the the visible church and choosing rather to have independent worship at home.

I have no problem with church plants or local congregations meeting in a house if that's what is necessary for the situation.
Battered Sheep Ministry: Articles

Here is a link to a group of home church supporters.
__________________
N. Robert; Trinity Reformed Church RCA, Holland MI

"Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right."
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Amazing Grace For This Useful Post:
KMK (10-16-2009), Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009)
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 09:48 AM
KMK's Avatar
KMK KMK is offline.
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wrightwood, CA
Posts: 8,601
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 3,594
Thanked 1,317 Times in 758 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Grace View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwithnell View Post
I recall being in a church plant where we met in homes Sunday evenings until we had a more established meeting place. That was an incredibly close time and to this day, if you get any of us together from the era, we're likely to be a bit nostalgic. But, I don't think that is the overall Biblical pattern, except, perhaps, for doing what you can to get a church up and going.
Just to clarify my question in the thread, by "home/house church" movement, I'm refering to those folks who are disassociating from the the visible church and choosing rather to have independent worship at home.

I have no problem with church plants or local congregations meeting in a house if that's what is necessary for the situation.
Battered Sheep Ministry: Articles

Here is a link to a group of home church supporters.
Oh yeah, looking at these articles reminded me of another line of reasoning used by house churchers. The priesthood of all believers precludes anyone having authority in an ecclesiological sense. Therefore, there are no 'explicit' leaders in house churches. (There are implicit ones, but they don't like to recognize them as such)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to KMK For This Useful Post:
Amazing Grace (10-17-2009), christianyouth (10-16-2009), Puritan Sailor (10-16-2009)
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 11:34 AM
jwithnell's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 1,252
Thanks: 155
Thanked 555 Times in 339 Posts
I was just saying that it might be a useful provision at some point in the life of a congregation, but isn't the normative pattern.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2009, 06:13 AM
Amazing Grace's Avatar
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Holland, Michigan
Posts: 1,538
Thanks: 245
Thanked 204 Times in 168 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Grace View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor View Post

Just to clarify my question in the thread, by "home/house church" movement, I'm refering to those folks who are disassociating from the the visible church and choosing rather to have independent worship at home.

I have no problem with church plants or local congregations meeting in a house if that's what is necessary for the situation.
Battered Sheep Ministry: Articles

Here is a link to a group of home church supporters.
Oh yeah, looking at these articles reminded me of another line of reasoning used by house churchers. The priesthood of all believers precludes anyone having authority in an ecclesiological sense. Therefore, there are no 'explicit' leaders in house churches. (There are implicit ones, but they don't like to recognize them as such)
I have gleaned some nuggets from some of the articles KMK. Erkel has a good article on the problems with ''pastoral search committees". I am not intending to digress this thread, just thought id mention it.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.0

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2002-2008 PuritanBoard.com
Hosted by WebsiteMaven - helping ministries with web hosting advice, reviews, and design.
67 Westminster Abbey © Confessional Presbyterian Presses - used with permission.
Add Our Custom Button to your Google Toolbar

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69