The PuritanBoard  

Go Back   The PuritanBoard > Theology > Theological Forum > Ecclesiology

Ecclesiology Discussion of Church Government, Polity and the like
that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:15)

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:10 PM
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,932
Thanks: 655
Thanked 684 Times in 287 Posts
Laity Giving the Benediction

Is this appropriate?

At out church, it seems to be a way to involve men who are not elders or deacons. Each week, the staff choose a different man to do it (with some repeats, eventually, of course) - and they only select men who have been faithful in serving, some lay teaching, and have upright households, but who simply are not ordained. Basically, they choose 'informal' leaders. This week my name came up.

For definition's sake, at our church a benediction is a closing prayer after the sermon and final hymn, and is the very last part of the service.

My first reaction is this: the benediction is serious, and representing the congregation before God is serious. I very strongly feel that sort of representation of the church before God, and formal leadership of the congregation in petition to Him, ought to be reserved for ordained men.

I have a few days to confirm with them, so I'm curious how other churches view this. Any resources that would be helpful?
__________________
Jeremy Gage
First Baptist Church
Durham, NC

"No heart can conceive that treasury of mercies which lies in this one privilege, in having liberty and ability to approach unto God at all times, according to his mind and will." - John Owen
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:26 PM
Theognome's Avatar
Puritanboard Graduate
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 3,218
Thanks: 617
Thanked 1,916 Times in 851 Posts
Our church does not practice this, and personally if I were placed is such a position, I would readily decline. The benediction is reminiscent of the priestly benediction of the days of the temple/tabernacle, and IMO is not a function that should be performed by laity within the context of formal worship.

Theognome
__________________
Bill Cunningham
Covenant Reformed Church, URC
Kansas City
There are three kinds of people- those who can count, and those who can't.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Theognome For This Useful Post:
Berean (04-08-2009), Dearly Bought (04-08-2009)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:26 PM
Marrow Man's Avatar
Drunk with Powder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,111
Thanks: 2,779
Thanked 2,444 Times in 1,224 Posts
Jeremy, coming at this from a Presbyterian perspective, I'm not sure I can be of much help. In our circles, the benediction is not the same thing as a closing prayer, and only someone ordained to the ministry of the word (i.e., a pastor) can pronounce the benediction. The Scriptural examples of benedictions being given by members of the Aaronic priesthood (Numbers 6:23-26 ) and Apostles (e.g., 2 Corinthians 13:14) are often used to show that such an important part of worship (as you rightly indicate) should not be left up to "just anybody" but someone who has been set apart for such a part of ministry.
__________________
Tim Phillips
Pastor, Midlane Park Presbyterian Church (ARP)
Louisville, KY
Husband of Scottish Lass
My Blog: Gairney Bridge
My Facebook/My Avatar

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

"Wherever the gospel is preached, it is as if God Himself came into the midst of us." ~ John Calvin
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Marrow Man For This Useful Post:
Berean (04-09-2009), Dearly Bought (04-08-2009), Southern Presbyterian (04-08-2009)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:43 PM
Edward's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Plano TX
Posts: 2,038
Thanks: 626
Thanked 683 Times in 444 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marrow Man View Post
In our circles, the benediction is not the same thing as a closing prayer, and only someone ordained to the ministry of the word (i.e., a pastor) can pronounce the benediction.
My reaction was the same - a benediction isn't a prayer, and should be pronounced with the congregation looking forward, or upward.
__________________
Edward
Deacon
PCA
Texas
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Edward For This Useful Post:
Marrow Man (04-08-2009)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:54 PM
Marrow Man's Avatar
Drunk with Powder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,111
Thanks: 2,779
Thanked 2,444 Times in 1,224 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marrow Man View Post
In our circles, the benediction is not the same thing as a closing prayer, and only someone ordained to the ministry of the word (i.e., a pastor) can pronounce the benediction.
My reaction was the same - a benediction isn't a prayer, and should be pronounced with the congregation looking forward, or upward.
Even in Presbyterian circles, this is a hard habit for people to get out of. I'm not sure the reason why -- I speculate it is because of past church experiences where it is treated like a "closing prayer," but I don't know. I've repeatedly told my congregation they should be looking forward, and I'll even precede the benediction with something like, "Please look forward and receive the benediction...", but some folks still look down.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:58 PM
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,932
Thanks: 655
Thanked 684 Times in 287 Posts
This is kind of funny, because when I visit my in-laws (CRC), I am the only one who doesn't look down as if their benediction were a prayer. Her family has certainly noticed this, and probably thinks I'm really weird or don't know protocol, but they haven't said anything I would love for our church to use the benediction properly, but instead it is what it is, and I've been asked to do it.

Although I'm still pretty strongly settled on not doing it, is there anyone on the other side?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:02 PM
Edward's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Plano TX
Posts: 2,038
Thanks: 626
Thanked 683 Times in 444 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marrow Man View Post
Even in Presbyterian circles, this is a hard habit for people to get out of. I'm not sure the reason why -- I speculate it is because of past church experiences where it is treated like a "closing prayer," but I don't know. I've repeatedly told my congregation they should be looking forward, and I'll even precede the benediction with something like, "Please look forward and receive the benediction...", but some folks still look down.
Our leaders are also making a conscious effort in this area, usually preceding the benediction with a 'Lift your eyes toward the Lord and receive the benediction.'

My personal preference is for Biblically based benedictions, rather than those from other sources.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Edward For This Useful Post:
Marrow Man (04-08-2009)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:06 PM
Marrow Man's Avatar
Drunk with Powder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,111
Thanks: 2,779
Thanked 2,444 Times in 1,224 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
My personal preference is for Biblically based benedictions, rather than those from other sources.
Ditto here. I only use Biblically-based benedictions.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:07 PM
Edward's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Plano TX
Posts: 2,038
Thanks: 626
Thanked 683 Times in 444 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by smhbbag View Post

Although I'm still pretty strongly settled on not doing it, is there anyone on the other side?
Well, perhaps you have some room to do it, since it appears to be a closing prayer that they are asking for, rather than a pronouncement of a benediction.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:07 PM
Marrow Man's Avatar
Drunk with Powder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,111
Thanks: 2,779
Thanked 2,444 Times in 1,224 Posts
Yep, that's a good point.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:11 PM
Puritanboard Junior
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,932
Thanks: 655
Thanked 684 Times in 287 Posts
Quote:
Well, perhaps you have some room to do it, since it appears to be a closing prayer that they are asking for, rather than a pronouncement of a benediction.
It seems just as bad - whether to be pronouncing a blessing from God and formal parting words, or to be formally representing the congregation in petition before the Lord. Not much difference, in my mind, as far as the weight of it is concerned.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:21 PM
Marrow Man's Avatar
Drunk with Powder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,111
Thanks: 2,779
Thanked 2,444 Times in 1,224 Posts
Jeremy, I don't know if this helps, but maybe it will (or maybe it will confuse you more!): when I accepted my first call to the pastorate, I had to wait a few weeks (3 or 4) before the ordination and installation service could be arranged (in presbyterianism, a minister is ordained by members of the presbytery at a service). So, for about 3 or 4 Lord's Days, I was preaching and leading worship, but I was not technically ordained. Thus, I could not give a benediction according to our standards. So for those services, I simply said something like, "In lieu of a benediction, let's have a closing prayer." Perhaps you could do something similar.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Marrow Man For This Useful Post:
smhbbag (04-08-2009)
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2009, 11:25 PM
Edward's Avatar
Puritanboard Senior
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Plano TX
Posts: 2,038
Thanks: 626
Thanked 683 Times in 444 Posts
I'll yield to guidance from my betters on this issue, but I'm not sure that there is a problem with a member of the congregation praying during corporate worship.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
The Following User Says Thank You to Edward For This Useful Post:
smhbbag (04-08-2009)
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2009, 08:35 PM
Kevin's Avatar
Puritanboard Postgraduate
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Moncton NB Canada
Posts: 4,574
Thanks: 1,579
Thanked 929 Times in 484 Posts
If it is not a minister, then it is not a benediction. "Only" a prayer. May sound like a distinction without a difference, but I think it is an important distinction.
__________________
Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.0

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2 ©2009, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2002-2008 PuritanBoard.com
Hosted by WebsiteMaven - helping ministries with web hosting advice, reviews, and design.
67 Westminster Abbey © Confessional Presbyterian Presses - used with permission.
Add Our Custom Button to your Google Toolbar

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69