Can anyone explain me what the differences is between Independency & Congregationalism ?
Is the polity or church goverment different, while they both independed ?
Any information would be very helpfull !

__________________
* Ralph Wilms (7-10-1974)
* Church : Christengemeente Roermond (The Netherlands)
* Credobaptist who hold towards Covenant Theology
* Husband of Reena & father of Naomie and Gideon
* 1729 Goat Yard Declaration of Faith
* 1646 & 1689 Baptist Confession of faith
* 1595 The Lambeth Articles
* 1618-1619 The Canons of Dordt

As I understand it the only difference would be that in a congregational church the congregation has the power whilst that need not be the case in an independant church. i.e. Congregationalism is a subset of independency. Hope that makes sense!

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Richard
CofE
UK

Every independent church is going to function differently, but the general distinction is between Congregationalism and Independent (Elder Rule) (sometimes known as Independent Presbyterian, or "bible church"). The question is whether the final authority lies with the congregation or with the elders.

Congregationalism (Savoy Declaration, New England Puritans, Baptists) is the belief that the ultimate authority lies with the congregation. Congregationalists emphasize the church as a community of believers who covenant together. Stanley Grenz's systematic, sees New England congregationalism, with their "halfway covenant," as theologically and historically leading towards the Baptist position, since if the church is primarily a community of covenanting believers, a profession of faith should be necessary to belong to that covenant of believers.

"Elder rule" is that the ultimate authority lies with the elders. This idea has different roots. There are a number of independent presbyterian churches in the U.S. that have not seen it fit to associate with other churches.

This is also the predominant church form of many dispensationalists such as those from Dallas Theological Seminary, Moody Bible Institute, Masters College and Seminary, and others. They usually call themselves non-denominational and often have "bible church" or "community church" in their name (although "community church" is also used by Congregationalists, Baptists, and even Presbyterians).

The advent of mega-churches has shifted churches from congregational to elder rule as well. While John Piper's large church still has congregational votes that involve thousands of people, most large churches find this unwieldy.

In practice, if done well, congregationalism and elder rule looks the same. The elders will brief and discuss decisions with the congregation, and the congregation will give input submit to the elders' guidance leadership. The small functional difference is that in congregationalism, the congregation will approve decisions proposed by the elders (often unanimously), and in elder rule, the elders will inform the congregation of their decisions after soliciting input. It is only when the congregation and the elders are at odds that the difference really comes into play.

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I think you are right. To use modern examples, Grace Community Church, where John MacArthur is pastor, is an independent church that is "elder rule." The congregation does not vote on much of anything if they do at all. Most Baptist churches are independent and congregational as well, in that, while the day-to-day operations and leadership are handle by pastors/elders, the congregation votes on most major issues.

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A question; John Owen was involved with the Savoy Declaration, but was Owen's view of church goverment not more leaning towards presbyterianism, in that sense that the untimate authority lies with the elders ?

This confuses me, because i read that John Owen became a congregatiolist or independed (who also wrote the Savoy Declaration, were ultimate authority lies with the congregation), while others said his indepency leans towards weak presbyterianism ?

__________________
* Ralph Wilms (7-10-1974)
* Church : Christengemeente Roermond (The Netherlands)
* Credobaptist who hold towards Covenant Theology
* Husband of Reena & father of Naomie and Gideon
* 1729 Goat Yard Declaration of Faith
* 1646 & 1689 Baptist Confession of faith
* 1595 The Lambeth Articles
* 1618-1619 The Canons of Dordt

Owen was an independent, not a congregationalist. He held to a non-binding form of inter-church association, and that the locval Church was ruled by Teaching and Ruling Elders.

Congregationalism is the view that the "root court" of the Church is the congregational meeting. Hence, ordination, excommunication, reception of members, etc. all done by the "gathered Church" in a congregational meeting. It is often called the "New England Way" from the history of the congregational churches of New England. There are a few historical books by Williston Walker, himself a congregationalist, (but theologically liberal) on Congregationalism.

The Creeds and Platforms of Congregationalism
History of the Congregational Churches in the US

Also, The Congregational Way, by Arthur Rouner is a modern resource on congregationalism.

__________________
Rev. Todd Ruddell
Pastor, Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPCGA)
Wylie, TX
www.christcovenantreformedpc.org

Our best marks can contribute nothing to our justification, ...that is proper to faith. Faith cannot lodge in the soul alone, and without other graces; yet faith alone justifies before God.--G. Gillespie

Thanks, but Owen was involved with the Savoy Declaration, and was Savoy Declaration not congregatiolism ?

__________________
* Ralph Wilms (7-10-1974)
* Church : Christengemeente Roermond (The Netherlands)
* Credobaptist who hold towards Covenant Theology
* Husband of Reena & father of Naomie and Gideon
* 1729 Goat Yard Declaration of Faith
* 1646 & 1689 Baptist Confession of faith
* 1595 The Lambeth Articles
* 1618-1619 The Canons of Dordt