Thread: Congregationalism vs. Presbyterianism

Does anyone know or can anyone point me to some articles/books regarding Congregational Polity vs. Presbyterian Polity?

I am looking for pro/con on both systems.

Blessings and Thanks!!!

Mark Dever's compilation Polity is good for understanding historic Baptist congregationalism. Apparently the whole thing has now been made available at Founders.org.

Question of ignorance.

Does paedobaptist congregationalism look different than credobaptist congregationalism?

I think it depends on how connected you are to historic congregationalist roots. Probably a good idea to pick up Williston Walker's Creeds and Platforms of Congregationalism to trace historical developments.

(Coming from one who is ignorant of modern congregationalist polity)

Being a Presbyterian, I nevertheless have great respect for Thomas Goodwin's Constitution, Right, Order and Government of the Churches of Christ, which is a defense of Congregational polity. Book Four of this book is a refutation of Presbyterianism.

He also wrote a brief catechism dealing with church government which you may be interested in reading.

If you are interested, search around on Googlebooks (I'm quite certain his complete works are there); if you can't find these, and are interested in reading, PM me and I will send you PDFs of these.

I've a long term project hopefully to finish one day of releasing an edition of the Grand Debate, which was all the formal papers that passed between the Independent and Presbyterian (majority) divines at the Westminster Assembly in their committee for accommodation. About 400 pages I think. I know at least one person who thinks I should drop everything to focus on that, and I dust it off every so often, but church polity is a hard sell, which I learned from publishing Jus Divinum. Meantime, you can look at the original on Early English Books, but it is a terrible squint print text and IMHO, very hard to follow and get into in that shape.

Originally Posted by Prufrock

(Coming from one who is ignorant of modern congregationalist polity)

Being a Presbyterian, I nevertheless have great respect for Thomas Goodwin's Constitution, Right, Order and Government of the Churches of Christ, which is a defense of Congregational polity. Book Four of this book is a refutation of Presbyterianism.

He also wrote a brief catechism dealing with church government which you may be interested in reading.

If you are interested, search around on Googlebooks (I'm quite certain his complete works are there); if you can't find these, and are interested in reading, PM me and I will send you PDFs of these.

Do you know which vol of his works is Constitution, Right, Order and Government of the Churches of Christ in?

Ben,

It's in volume 11 of the modern Tanski edition; and in the original 5 folio volume edition of his collected works, it is in volume 4. Those are the only two printings for which I know its location.

PTS' Libary has both so I went with Vol. 11...

Thanks a bunch Paul!

Originally Posted by Backwoods Presbyterian

PTS' Libary has both so I went with Vol. 11...

Thanks a bunch Paul!

Good choice. Much easier to read.

Originally Posted by NaphtaliPress

I've a long term project hopefully to finish one day of releasing an edition of the Grand Debate, which was all the formal papers that passed between the Independent and Presbyterian (majority) divines at the Westminster Assembly in their committee for accommodation. About 400 pages I think. I know at least one person who thinks I should drop everything to focus on that, and I dust it off every so often, but church polity is a hard sell, which I learned from publishing Jus Divinum. Meantime, you can look at the original on Early English Books, but it is a terrible squint print text and IMHO, very hard to follow and get into in that shape.

What's the title of this work so that I can find it at EEBO? The editor/publisher?

Anyone know anything about "Congregational Independency in Contradistinction with Episcopacy and Presbyterianism" by Ralph Wardlow?

Todd, Chris might be referring to a specific edition, but if you do a title search for "Grand debate concerning Presbitery and independency" (sic), two titles will appear: select the title published in 1652.

If Chris checks this later, he may offer a correction.

That's correct; the later was I "think" a reissue with different title page but same "guts." Must of had a bit left over from the first run?

Originally Posted by Prufrock

Todd, Chris might be referring to a specific edition, but if you do a title search for "Grand debate concerning Presbitery and independency" (sic), two titles will appear: select the title published in 1652.

If Chris checks this later, he may offer a correction.

Originally Posted by Backwoods Presbyterian

Anyone know anything about "Congregational Independency in Contradistinction with Episcopacy and Presbyterianism" by Ralph Wardlow?

Originally Posted by Backwoods Presbyterian

Originally Posted by Backwoods Presbyterian

Anyone know anything about "Congregational Independency in Contradistinction with Episcopacy and Presbyterianism" by Ralph Wardlow?

I know nothing of the work, but I do know of the man - and you can check his biography here.

He's the grandson of James Fisher and the great-grandson of Ebenezer Erskine. I've got his exposition of Zechariah put out by Tentmaker, and have looked at some sections therein - very good stuff - but know nothing else of note.

This may not be on point but may help understanding the context:

Which Is More Anti-Hierarchical? The Reformed or Presbyterian Form of Church Government? by GI Williamson


Which is more Anti-Hierarchical?

Anyone willing to have a discussion on Presby v. Congry polity?

I was correcting someone of Facebook last evening -- someone college-educated who claimed our government was a "democracy" (instead of a constitutional republic). I believe I remember reading a quote by John Adams which stated that one of the desires of the Founding Fathers was to preserve us from "the tyranny of the majority." I won't say any more than that.

I have seen this book recommended before. I have not read it, but it might be useful:

Amazon.com: Perspectives on Church Government: Five Views of Church Polity: Chad Owen Brand, R. Stanton Norman, Daniel Akin, Jr. James Leo Garrett, Robert L. Reymond, James R. White, Paul F. M. Zahl: Books

Bringing this back up considering the discussion on Congregational vs. Presbyterian Polity...

Originally Posted by Backwoods Presbyterian

Bringing this back up considering the discussion on Congregational vs. Presbyterian Polity...

I would be willing to discuss. What would you like the rules to be? BTW, there's a good little book by Thomas Witherow The Apostolic Church - Which is It?. It helped me understand the issues better.

In Christ,

KC