What is PurposeDriven?


The most common myths about Purpose Driven

"œIt's just for churches following the latest style"
Purpose Driven does not mean chasing after quickly fading fads. PD is about being biblical and eternal. The five purposes, rooted in the Great Commandment and the Great Commission, will never go out of style. The five PD purposes are based on the commands Jesus said were essential to the church.

"PD is limited to boomer seekers."�
Purpose Driven is not about a particular style; rather it´s about balancing the purposes and establishing a target group to evangelize. There are literally thousands of varieties of PD churches: post-modern, ethnic, language group, cowboy, singles-focused, artists, surfers "“ and even traditional. There are PD churches targeted for the Builder generation, Boomers, Gen-Xers, and Millennial Gens -- and these congregations are located all around the world.

"œIt's a 'seeker sensitive' approach."�
Purpose Driven is not a seeker-sensitive approach. It does use a seeker-targeted strategy for evangelism (one of the five New Testament purposes), but PD does not require any specific method for evangelism or even a seeker-oriented worship service. There are thousands of PD churches that DO NOT have seeker-oriented services. It is a very flexible church health model that allows congregations to employ a variety of formats for evangelism.

"It's not my worship style."
Purpose Driven is not about a particular worship style. Your church can be liturgical, traditional, contemporary, country, charismatic, multi-sensory, or casual. The Purpose Driven model supports you as your church matches the worship style of those you are targeted to reach in the community. In other words, if your congregation is targeted for senior adults, then you might offer a very traditional worship service or a Big Band-styled ensemble to lead worship.

"It's only for bigger churches."
Purpose Driven is one of the most effective church planting strategies being used today. And that means that many, many PD congregations are very small in the beginning. But our research shows that successful PD churches come in all shapes and sizes. The Purpose Driven strategy focuses on balance, health, and strength, not size. There is no correlation between the size and strength of a church. PD is a church-health emphasis, not a mega-church program.

"It only works in a locale that..."
Purpose Driven churches are located in all sorts of settings: rural, small town, suburban, urban, inner city, jungle, war zone. It is not limited to a Southern California setting, either.

It needs to be denominationally approved."
Purpose Driven´s strategy dovetails easily into the polity of many denominations. We often describe it as a computer chip that can be used in any form of computer. Purpose Driven churches exist in more than 100 different denominations and associations.
http://www.purposedriven.com/en-US/AboutUs/WhatIsPD/7



Let's all get on the same page with what Rick Warren thinks his curriculum is about.

???

r.

[Edited on 11-12-2005 by Robin]

__________________
Robin
URCNA
Heidelberg, Ursinus, Belgic Confessions; Canons of Dordt
Revelation 14:2

There is plenty here to which one might reasonably object.

1. Where in the NT is there any example of demographically targeted evangelism? The very idea of congregations that are demographically, ethnically, or economically homogenous strikes at the very heart of the errors plaguing the Corinthian congregation.

2. The PDL/PDC is just another Law. They amount to the sort of "basic law principle" of this world to which Paul objected in Colossians.

3. Should we be kind to visitors and should be we concerned about the lost? Of course! We're Christians. We ought to love our neighbor and seek his well being, which includes his salvation. That congregations ought to seek anything other than glory of God through the proclamation of the law and the gospel, the administration of the holy sacraments and discipline is another thing altogether. RW has his "marks" and the Reformed churches have theirs. I prefer the latter thank you.

4. The only "format" the Scriptures know for "evangelism" is a minister standing in the pulpit proclaiming the foolishness of the gospel. There is a place for private witness (John 9- I'm teaching a series in the Adult Catechism class on this very topic this month) but that isn't the same thing as "evangelism." Every member is not a minister. Every member is a Christian and that's plenty responsibility for most folk (see Heidelberg Catechism Q. 32).

5. Show me a single place where the Apostles showed the least concern about the size of a congregation.

6. The very fact that the PD "works" (Charles Finney lives!) in multiple denominational settings should give us pause. What hath Geneva to do with and Oberlin?

rsc

__________________
R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Professor of Church History and Historical Theology

"For Christ, His Gospel, and His Church"
Associate Pastor
Oceanside URC
The Heidelblog

Great comments Mr. Clark.

__________________
Jeff Bartel
Mechanical Engineer
Member - Trinity Reformed Church - RPCNA

"To believe in the power of man in the work of regeneration is the great heresy of Rome, and from that error has come the ruin of the Church. Conversion proceeds from the grace of God alone, and the system which ascribes it partly to man and partly to God is worse than Pelagianism" (The Reformation in England (London, 1962), Vol. 1, p. 98)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

__________________
The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

well said, Dr. Clark!

Very keen on out-sourcing his "theology seminars," you DID know that Warren is going after the Modern Reformation movement? Right?

He called his rally over at Edison Field, recently, the "New Reformation."

FWIW,

r.

to Dr. Clark as well.

__________________
Nathan Olaf Brandal
First Baptist Church of Kirkland

"Man is nothing: he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do his good pleasure"
GEORGE WHITEFIELD TO JOHN WESLEY

My Blog

The comment about PD being able to fit into any system reminded me of this excerpt from an editorial in World Magazine called "œPacked But Still Empty."� The excerpt is describing an interview with sociologist and mega-church pastor Leith Anderson:

Anyway, I expect where you find PD, there is a good chance you will find "generic Christianity" that is "light on doctrine and sin."

__________________
Scott Roberts
Ruling Elder, Lakeside Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Southlake, Texas

The biggest problem I have whenever I hear Rick Warren talk, is that his teaching always comes back to his gimmick, or catch phrase. One would think the sole counsel of scripture and the history of the church were in error prior to Warren's arrival simply for not discovering such a basic principle. He gives the appearance that he is less concerned about proclaiming the Gospel than selling HIS books and his unique formula for Chistianity.

__________________
Brad
Deacon
Redeemer Church
Jackson, MS

Marketing, baby! Solus Purposus.

__________________
Chris Rhoades -33
Good Shepherd Presbyterian Church (PCA) Nashville, TN-Under Care

Vera theologia non theoretica, sed practica est; Finis siquidem eius agere est hoc est vitam vivere deiformem. - Martin Bucer
""True theology is not theoretical, but practical. The end of it is living, that is to live a godly life."

Do I detect a logical fallacy here? Note the subject shift from evangelism to congregations. Targeted evangelism is no problem. There is ample biblical precedent.

"and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Now this I do for the gospel's sake, ..." (1 Cor. 9:20-23)

Sounds like targeted evangelism to me.

And I would say that racially/economically/socially "homogenous [sic] congregations" may not be desirable. Ironically, that description seems to fit Reformed denominations very well. From the white Dutch in the CRC to the white Southerners in the PCA.

Before we beat up Warren over the (possible) speck in his eye, we need to check the log in our own Reformed eyes.

That's awfully western of you. I wonder where Peter found "pulpits" in the villages of the Samaritans (Acts 8), or Paul at the Areopagus of the Athenians. in fact I can't seem to find one single instance of Paul "evangelizing" from behind a "pulpit" in a church where he was the "senior pastor". Maybe he was too "purpose driven".

__________________
Tom Albrecht
Member, Covenant URCNA, New Holland, PA.

"I'm not a famous man. I'm just a simple country doctor with horse sense."

"Do I detect a logical fallacy here? Note the subject shift from evangelism to congregations. Targeted evangelism is no problem. There is ample biblical precedent."

Scott C. can of course speak for himself, but I think he is referring to the phenomenon of "niche marketing" among churches. Basically that is to create a church for a niche group. This is seen as evangelism in some circles, out of hopes that non-Christians who are part of that group will come.

Here is an excerpt from the Business Week article, Earthly Empires:
Churches become sorts of cliques. Anyway, this seems to be largely a protestant problem. Catholics and Orthodox with parish systems mitigate this to a large degree. Niches are not normally an option, with exceptions such as churches with certain language or non-standard rites. These issues were also not as prominent under older established church models.

[Edited on 11-14-2005 by Scott]

Thanks for the clarification on niche churches. I don't see anything in Warren's material that would suggest that is his approach. Quite the contrary. Thus my comment about confusing evangelism with congregations.

Tom,

Here is the link to CMS - a secular, marketing company that handles Saddleback and Purpose projects. Read carefully, the services and especially their client-base.

http://www.christian-ministry.com/aboutus_who.htm

Tell us where in the NT the Church is to employ worldly business practices to promote the Gospel?

Is Rick Warren's success really from God's blessing or worldly marketing? Hmmmm.....



r.

It just make's me sick to see modern churchianity so desperate to resort to world business practices to bring people into church. Keep the business world where it belongs. Keep the church where it belongs.

Your rabid anti-Warrenism makes you go looking for secondary sources on which to criticize Warren. I am truly sorry for you.

I don't judge the basis for Warren's "success". I'm not that omniscient. "Now John answered Him, saying, 'Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.' But Jesus said, 'Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. For he who is not against us is on our side.'" (Mark 9:38-40) With warnings like this from Our Lord, I'm obviously not smart enough to judge secondary sources or the basis of another's "success".

Well, Tom, you're right -- we shouldn't use secondary sources. That's why I posted a primary source. You may also call or write Saddleback - they are proud of the CMS association. (CMS lists SB and PD, too.)

Plus, here is a link to the parent company CMS:

http://churchmanagementsolutions.com/products.htm

When a church prospers due to effective marketing, is it deceptive to claim growth is from the Holy Spirit?



r.

Btw, CMS works for any church including Roman Catholic.

[Edited on 11-17-2005 by Robin]

"When a church prospers due to effective marketing, is it deceptive to claim growth is from the Holy Spirit?"

Hmm, I guess I would wonder if it would also be deceptive to have church programs on radio and TV and pay to have their services listed and advertised in Newspapers and the Yellow pages and then claim they are growing because of the Holy Spirit.

I mean, how could they claim it was the Holy Spirit leading their ministries if they are growing because of the effective marketing tools they are using?

So what is wrong with the way Warren markets his product? Which is by the way, just a book used to challenge Christians in their walk with God.

Is it wrong of him to explain to people how to develop their friendship with God?

Is it wrong of him to explain how to become bestfriends with God?

Is wrong of him to explain how to have a Heart of Worship for God? Or more to the point, explaining surrendering your whole self over to God.

Is it also wrong of him to explain how to grow through the temptations of life?
I mean, from the book:

points to Ponder

"Every temptation is an opportunity to do good."

Verse to remember: "God blesses the people who patiently endure testing. Afterward they will recieve the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him." James 1:12

Question to consider: What Christilike character quality can I develop by defeating the most common temptation I face?

Chapter 27

How about Defeating Temptation

2 Timothy 2:22 or 1 Corinthians 10:13

Resist the Devil--James 4:7

"How do we resist the devil? Paul tells us put on salvation as your helmet, and take the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. The first step is to accept God's salvation. You won't be able to say no to the devil unless you've said Yes to Christ."

Point to Ponder: There is always a way out

Verse to remember: 1 Corinthians 10:13

Question to Consider: "who could I ask to be a spiritual partner to help me defeat a persistant temptation by praying for me?"

Is it wrong for him to teach accountability partners???

So what that it is marketed to any and every church out there, If it is challenging dead churches to come back to their first love who cares HOW it is being marketed? If all good things come from God, and this way of marketing is apparently pretty good, then how can one logically say it's not from God?

Do you even know if the owner of this marketing company isn't a Christian?

Maybe marketing is one of their talents, and God is using their talent to market these books and other Sunday School lessons. So what if they don't advertise as being a certain demonation, how many Christian business owners do?

[Edited on 11-18-2005 by BJClark]

__________________
Bobbi Clark
Covenant Member
Pinewood Pres. (PCA) Middleburg

When I kept Silent, My bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. Psalm 32:3

This thread has me wanting to read the book just to see what all the hype is about.

__________________
Misery induces despair, pride induces presumption. The Incarnation shows man the
greatness of his misery by the greatness of the remedy which he required.
~ Pascal, Pensees 526

Robin and Saiph,

This month's issue of Modern Reformation has an excellent series countering the PDC/PDL garbage titled "The Promise Driven Life". Excellent and chalked full of life giving Gospel.

I attended a few years back a Saddleback modeled church here in KY. I wouldn't recommend it to an enemy. It will either drive you to self-confidence or self-despair, the later being my experience very despairing.

L

__________________
Larry Hughes
Geologist
Tates Creek PCA
Lexington, KY
PCA

Galatians 4:29, "But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also."

Is someone getting payouts from Warren?

Bravo, Larry Horton visited and presented that sermon, recently. WOW! The best rebuttal, ever. But, more than that....it was the high-beam, focus-light on the Truth of the matter: focus on the Gospel the Covenant; God's Promise. Not our belly-buttons; our works; our purpose; our S.H.A.P.E., SELF, SELF, SELF. (puke)

(I've completely had it with pastors that talk about themselves and exclude the knowledge of the true Jesus Christ, from the Scriptures.)

r.

And how long did you sit under RW preaching ministry until you left?