I have been attending a Sovereign Grace church for the past few weeks, and I had a question which I could probably find the answer around somewhere, but not really in the mood to look for it.

At this church they allow women to read the Scripture that the sermon will be on, and women also come forward and read and pray up at the front of the church during the singing time. Is that prohibited in Paul's command for women to "learn in silence"?

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Ian Kemmerer
Covenant Presbetyrian Church,Reading,PA
Fleetwood,PA

"Be still, my soul: when dearest friends depart, And all is darkened in the vale of tears, Then shalt thou better know His love, His heart, Who comes to soothe thy sorrow and thy fears. Be still, my soul: thy Jesus can repay From His own fullness all He takes away."

I believe it does prohibit woman from reading, teaching, and praying out loud..

But who am I, just another radical......

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Michael Daniels
Reformed, RPCNA
Denton, Maryland

[i][b]As For Me And My House, We Will Serve The Lord[/i][/b]

[SIZE="1"][I][FONT="Century Gothic"]Unum Deum in Trinitate: Pater, Filius, et Spiritus Sanctus [RIGHT]Sola scriptura - Sola gratia - Sola fide - Solus Christus - Soli Deo gloria - Solum psalterium - Lex talionis[/RIGHT][/FONT][/I][/SIZE]

Yes. It's prohibited.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

It seems to be prohibited in the same fashion that it is prohibited for someone to speak in tongue without an interpreter, and their aren't any exceptions listed there. So, I don't see any Scriptural basis for disagreeing with previous posts.

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Taylor Otwell
Considering Membership -- Oak Cliff Baptist Church
Fort Smith, Arkansas, USA

Did we ever hear any cry out on their deathbed that they have been too holy, that they have prayed too much, or walked with God too much? – Thomas Watson, The Godly Man’s Picture

What if a husband and wife team read scripture? At my former PCA church in Chicago, we had this happen. The scripture reading was part of the order of worship we'd have the OT and NT readings, then the pastor would read the scripture for that day's sermon, pray then begin his sermon.

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Nikki Edmond
New Beginnings Believers Bible Fellowship (Family's Church), Non-Denom
Los Angeles, CA
www.haveatulip.com - Chat Room for Reformed Believers
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

do women giving devotionals for a coed speech class violate the rule too?

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Jeff Rod
Eastwood Presbyterian Church PCA
member.
webpage: myspace.com/reformationforever

To live a simple, peaceable life before God
To owe as little as possible, to few as possible.

Let's put it this way: Paul, via the Holy Spirit, prohibited it, whether or not some finite leaders of a Church permit it or not.

From the WLC...

Question 156: Is the Word of God to be read by all?

Answer: Although all are not to be permitted to read the Word publicly to the congregation, yet all sorts of people are bound to read it apart by themselves, and with their families: to which end, the holy Scriptures are to be translated out of the original into vulgar languages.

This should be understood in light of the what the divines said in the Directory for Public Worship

Of Publick Reading of the Holy Scriptures.

READING of the word in the congregation, being part of the publick worship of God, (wherein we; acknowledge our dependence upon him, and subjection to him,) and one mean sanctified by him for the edifying of his people, is to be performed by the pastors and teachers.

Howbeit, such as intend the ministry, may occasionally both read the word, and exercise their gift in preaching in the congregation, if allowed by the presbytery thereunto.

The Reformed understanding is that the reading of God's word belongs to the ministerial office.

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Rev. Adam King
Minister without a call (WPCUS)
Stated Supply: Reformed Presbyterian Church
Sterling, KS

That would be my understanding.

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Kevin Lewis
Reformed Baptist - LBCF 1689
Covenant Community Church
Orlando, FL
__________________________

me too.

The phenomenon of women reading Scripture seems to flow from the idea that everyone has to be "involved" somehow; that God wouldn't want us to worship without having the opportunity to "take part" in worship. Somehow it is no longer enough to hear the lovely Word of God read by the elders of the church, to sing together, to be led in adoration, confession, thanksgiving and supplication, and to hear that precious Word faithfully preached. Somehow we have decided that I, TOO have to get up front and "use my gifts". It's truly a case of our own arrogance and sense of autonomy playing out. This is what has bred instances of little Johnny playing his drum (cute as that might be, it's got NO place in the gathered worship of the church), and every Tom, Dick and Harriet reading scripture.

Isn't worshipping together under the care of God's ordained undershepherds sufficient "participation"? Apparently not.

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


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Prohibited.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

and

It's Jacobian philosophy being lived out in the Church, of all places.

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~James Helbert~, Wytheville, VA
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS
TheBibleAlone.com / The Edinburgh Inn
"Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” - Zechariah 3:2

Todd, why don't you get up on Sunday and exercise your gifts? You know . . . do a little cold fusion demonstration . . . change lead into gold . . . cure the rhino virus . . . explain mathematically why whatever line you get in at the grocery store is always the slowest one . . . those kinds of things.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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Todd, when I grew up it was "Tom, Dick and Harry." Have you succumbed to political gender correctness? Why was Harriet added to this most noble of colloquialisms? Did Harry privately offend you? Or could it be that Harry's name is copyrighted and you did not have the expressed written consent of Major League Baseball? Inquiring minds want to know.

The reading of Scripture is an authoritative duty, therefore it is left for the ministers or those otherwise licensed to do so. The Apostle Paul told Timothy to include reading among his other ministerial duties (1 Timothy 4.13) The Reading of Scripture is an exercise of leadership in the worship service, and the Apostle specifically forbade this leadership role to women. (1 Timothy 2.9-15).

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Rev. Todd Ruddell
Pastor, Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church (RPCGA)
Wylie, TX
www.christcovenantreformedpc.org

Our best marks can contribute nothing to our justification, ...that is proper to faith. Faith cannot lodge in the soul alone, and without other graces; yet faith alone justifies before God.--G. Gillespie

Surprisingly, this recent presidential campaign has the candidates speaking of church and worship and christianity more openly than in previous campaigns. One thing we have learned is that there is a prevailing trend to define worship differences as "You worship God your way, and I'll worship God my way." We see the dramatic consequence of this in hearing politicians embrace homosexual sin and infant murder as differences in how we may approach God.

Within the more conservative and reformed churches we don't see such blatant upending of Biblical principles but unfortunately there is still an acceptance of the practice of letting individuals define worship.

We must always come back with the answer, "You worship God your way, and I'll worship God HIS WAY." The Regulative Worship Principle is a tough path to follow and we can become too vigilant in our devotion to 'get it all perfect', but we must at least begin with seeking to worship God HIS WAY and building on that foundation.

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Bob Vigneault (Bawb Vēēn-yo)
I just know there's got to be a pony in here somewhere!

The Heartbeat of Heaven (blog) MySpace (Music), MySpace (Personal)
Member of Christ Presbyterian Church, Janesville, WI OPC www.christ-opc.org

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

excellent point indeed!

Another thing the PCA will have to address somewhere down the road. So far, they haven't even addressed whether women can teach men's Bible studies.

That one philosophy that's going around in the PCA that "a women can do anything an unordained man can do" allows women to read the Scriptures during Sunday service, teach coed Bible studies etc..and participate to one degree another in the Lord's Supper, although there is a position paper restricting the administration of the Sacraments to the Elders.

There was the case IIRC in Tennessee where a large PCA church let a woman preach during Sunday night service, and he used this philosophy. He explained this by using this philosophy. When asked if the woman who led the service was preaching, he said, no, only Elders can peach, and since only men can be Elders and she isn't a man then she obviously wasn't preaching. At the church court case that resulted, someone on the panel asked the Pastor if his reasoning was "Clintonesque" and he said no, that just because it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it doesn't mean it's a duck. The way the case was resolved, at least as far as I can see it, was that the Pastor said it was wrong, and he wouldn't allow it again. But the main (to my mind) issue of whether a woman can do anything an unordained man can do wasn't resolved, and eventually will have to be.

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Tim Vaughan, 48 years old, member PCA church but currently attending EV Free church. San Luis Obispo County, California.

I don't know that there's a Scriptural injunction against women leading corporate prayer (in fact, there are Scriptural examples of such without condemnation), but the reading of Scripture carries (in and of itself) authority, and in a sense, reading Scripture is authoritative teaching -- interpreted or not.

So . . . yes to prayer, no to Scripture reading.

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Rae W. | Elder @ Grace Central Presbyterian Church | Columbus, OH
not another blog, v2.0

Hm. How is prayer-leading less "authoritative" than Scripture reading?

I don't buy the "authoritative" vs. "non-authoritative" teaching distinction - t'aint no such thing. Teaching is authoritative by its very nature.

And, since you claim they exist, can you show an example of a woman leading prayer for a congregation of God's people in gathered worship (or otherwise?)?