Here's a question maybe someone can answer ...

Before I voted, I looked at the poll results and it showed the names of which people voted for which position.

After I voted, it was just numbers and pecentages ... no names.

How come you can view who voted for what, but only before you yourself votes?

This has puzzled me for many polls now ....

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Anthony Beadles
Christ The King Presbyterian
Clearwater, Florida

Anthony -- Try clicking on the actual numbers. That should show who voted.

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Andrew Myers
Husband of Jessica, Father of Jackson, Katie and Samuel
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church of Northern Virginia
Warrenton, VA USA
Editor, The Matthew Poole Project

"Let your Morning Thoughts, and your last Evening Thoughts, be what shall become of you to all Eternity." -- Matthew Poole

Vic - I'm with you. Additionally I no longer hold to a pre-trib rapture, but I'm still sympathetic to a 1000 year millennium. What does that make me? I have no idea. Ignorance is bliss.

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Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
Visit my BLOG Theology for the Rest of Us

I'm still largely ignorant on many of these eschatological issues myself, but that sounds like historic premill.

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Chris


A passion to know and reflect Christ by living and demonstrating the truth and richness of the historic Reformed faith

Visit My Website Here

Christopher Blum
Member of Trinity Presbyterian Church of Northern Kentucky (PCA) in Burlington, KY

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Another silly question, is the historic premil position totally in conflict with Reformed theology. I ask this a a man who is still trying to grapple with finding a position.

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~etexas~

Absolutely NOT.......

We Historic PreMills are..

Fully Covenantal
The Church is Spiritual Israel and heirs according to the promise of Abraham
Post Tribulational
1 Second Coming
1 General Judgment
Millennial is for the Church not for the Jews.....

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Michael Daniels
Reformed, RPCNA
Denton, Maryland

[i][b]As For Me And My House, We Will Serve The Lord[/i][/b]

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I voted Hsitoricism cause thats what Ive been leaning towards, or at least the one that has me most interested.

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Nathan Olaf Brandal
First Baptist Church of Kirkland

"Man is nothing: he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do his good pleasure"
GEORGE WHITEFIELD TO JOHN WESLEY

My Blog

Thank you Brother...I like that answer....it is very cohesive...and Biblical...as I seek my position I will take this one seriously into consideration....esp. since it is one of the few positions I know much about anyway, what do you recomend me reading defending and understanding this from a Reformed perspective?

George Eldon Ladd is probably the most well-known and even well-respected defender of this position. As Michael said, though in the minority, it is one of the basic eschatological positions Reformed theologians have historically held. The other two are amillennialism and historic postmillennialism, the former seeing no actual millennial period and viewing the final judgment as the next event in redemptive history, and the latter (as held by many of the Puritans) seeing a literal 1000-year millennium of large conversion and sanctification on the earth and only then the return of Christ and final judgment occurring. There is also what has now come to be commonly called the "theonomic postmillennial" view, which is largely identical with historic postmill except that it does not view the millennium as a literal 1000 years, but only a large period of unknown timespan - although one conceivably would not of course have to hold to theonomy in order to have a postmill position that views the millennium as an indefinite length of time.

Rejecting Dispensationalism, those are the basic three/four millennial positions - and as has been noted in this thread, the distinction between partial preterism, historicism, futurism and idealism (rejecting hyper-preterism) are somewhat different issues, having more to do with one's broad hermeneutic of the eschatological events as a whole - and while it will of course be true that people of certain millennial positions often tend more toward certain eschatological hermeneutics than others, there is no innate, necessary tie between either view within the two categories, and indeed there is often variation in the correspondence of such held views.

I selected "Idealism" as that's what Amill is usually tied to.
I would also say, 'partial preterist' as some things are obviously tied to AD70 and therefore, past.

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Dave Hall
Elgin, Texas
Ruling Elder
Providence Presbyterian Church, OPC (near Austin, TX)

"A Jedi's strength flows from the Java." - Yoda (paraphrased)

Your Welcome brother.... As Me_Died_Blue said Ladd is a great source to get information on the topic and I do have all his books on the subject, but I also really like these other two book I am going to recommend....

They are pretty exhaustive regarding the issues of the rapture, second coming, and millennial period from a Historic Premill view point.....

1. The PostTribulational Rapture of the Church by Bruce Tucker 356 pages
2. Of The Last Days: Listen I Tell You A Mystery by Richard Perry 270 pages

There is very little that I could find that I disagree with in those books... I am not sure I can recommend Perry's other books but this one is solid......

Enjoy,
Coram Deo,
Michael

What are my choices if I am convinced of the 'Two Age' view?

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http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/

As long as the bible isn't put on a Two-Age procrustean bed, most any non-dispy position will work with it.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

You guys define the eschatology spectrum by 20th Century debates. The major historic divisions are chiliasts and anti-chiliasts. The big questions are: (a) Is there a literal millennium, in which Jesus will (visibly) reign on earth for 1,000 years? (b) Do you expect the Second Coming during your lifetime?

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Chris Stamper
Park Cities PCA
(Dallas, TX)

By 'procrustean' are you refering to an arbitrary disregard for a possible 'overlap' of the two ages?

I'm a little confused with some of the lingo here. I understand, for the most part, the different major views of eschatology, but some of the titles here I am not familiar with. Would this be an accurate translation of the terms?
Futurism - Amillennialism
Historicism - Historic Premillennialism
Idealism - Postmillennialism

I agree with your points. In regards to part b, I truly believe most biblically-minded Christians would agree that:

a. We are commanded to live believing in our blood and gut and heart that the Second Coming could happen in our lifetime - or even in the next five minutes.
b. Many of the prophecies that are to be fulfilled may be fulfilled unknowingly to many believers (i.e. a premillennialist would see a fulfilled prophecy rather differently than a partial preterist), so even if one believes there are still things that need to happen in this world before the Second Coming happens, all Christians must live with the humility that the Lord may return eminently.

Futurism = mostly premillennialism
Historicism = mostly Reformed postmillennialism, some amillennialism
Idealism = mostly amillennialism.

futurism I at one point studied the Idealist interpretation but feel that it is too easily manipulated by the interpter as opposed to taking the word for what the word said in there but that has more to do with hermeneutics then an interpretive viewpoint on prophecy

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Aaron
Independent Baptist
Holland MI
Blog: earthdwell22.blogspot.com