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Revelation & Eschatology discuss Romans 11 and Israel in the The Scriptures forums; I was explaining to my wife this passage the other day in light of John MacArthur's recent attack on Reformed Theology. This is usually one ...

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    B.J.'s Avatar
    B.J. is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    Romans 11 and Israel

    I was explaining to my wife this passage the other day in light of John MacArthur's recent attack on Reformed Theology. This is usually one of the first NT passages brought up by Dispey's concerning God's chosen people, Israel.

    In verse 25, I appearently have an unusaul interpretation of Israel.
    I believe Paul changes the meaning of Israel in mid verse. I believe the first usuage is referring to the OT Israel, and the second is referring to the Church, the NT Israel. I believe this because in Chapter 9 Paul says that not all Israel is Israel, and so I think this distinction is applied to verse 25 of Chapter 11.
    My problem arises in verse 28 with the reference to they.
    In the verse Paul says some strange things about the they. They are enemies of God for our sake, but because of the forefathers they are loved. This makes no sense to me. Is Paul thinking in terms of Federal Headship? That is to say, because of the forefathers faith they are beloved? Does anyone have insight that might help me out?

    Normally, I interpret this entire chapter as a future restoration of the Jewish people to God, but only through Christ. Not by rebuilding the temple and sacrifices and all that Dispey nonsense. I believe that there will be an overall theme of Jewish conversion, in the future, to Chrisitanity.


    13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in. 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. 25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers:a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, The Deliverer will come from Zion,he will banish ungodliness from Jacob; 27 and this will be my covenant with themwhen I take away their sins. 28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
    B.J. Edenfield
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    "Captain, my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me. That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave"- Stonewall Jackson

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    BlackCalvinist's Avatar
    BlackCalvinist is offline. Puritanboard Senior
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    same they in the previous verse.

    and where did you get that MacArthur attacked 'reformed theology' ?

    Amillennialism isn't exclusive to RT nor is everyone who holds to RT amill or postmill. Ladd, Buswell, Khoo and the folks at http://www.messiahskingdom.com are good examples.
    KG
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    B.J.'s Avatar
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    and where did you get that MacArthur attacked 'reformed theology' ?

    Well, generally speaking, anytime someone calls Reformed Theology, Replacement Theology they are attacking Reformed Theology. He said this at the Shepards Conference.

    Amillennialism isn't exclusive to RT nor is everyone who holds to RT amill or postmill.

    Everyone who holds to Reformed Theology is either, Postmill, Amill, or Historic Premill. Historic Premill is not Dispensational. If someone is holding to Reformed Theology and some eschatological view other than the three I just listed, they are simply confused either about Reformed Theology, or eschatology.
    B.J. Edenfield
    Member of Independent Presbyterian Church (PCA)
    Savannah, Ga.
    "Captain, my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me. That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave"- Stonewall Jackson

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    ReformedWretch's Avatar
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    Vs 13- Paul says he is magnifying his ministry to the Gentiles in order to make current Jews jealous in order to save some of them.

    Vs 14-24 goes on to tell us how we were grafted in and anyone who fell or were even made a stumbling block can be grafted back in just as easily as we were grafted in.

    Vs 26 affirms that ALL Israel will be save-after the fullness of the Gentiles yet this entire passage speaks of a remnant. So, how can ALL of Israel be saved yet only a remnant be saved?

    Vs 32 tells us that God has consigned all to disobedience including this remnant.

    I am nothing, and I in no way compare to all the theological giants of the past or even the pastors here on the PB! But I continue to read and study this entire chapter and I cannot see anything other than a past event.

    Vs 5 says “IN THIS PRESENT TIME” just like Revelations speaks of a time coming shortly, or at hand, this chapter speaks to the “present time”. Maybe I am just an idiot who can’t see something that’s obvious, but at this moment I still see Romans 11 as a past event. The Jewish remnant left Jerusalem in AD70 before it’s destruction.

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