The whole of Scripture is of course important to all Christians, the book of Revelation is quite interesting, and of all Books in Holy-Writ (expressly gives a Benediction and Blessing to those who hear and read it), this said, as one who over the past year has come to seek a Biblical and solid reformed view of Scripture, I find myself in an odd position, much of Scripture seems more clear to me, with the exception of Revelation: When I was a child I thought like a child.... I used to think of Revelation as a "fearful" book with nightmarish imagery. Now, I think ,it ,like the rest of Scripture is to edify and give hope to the Saints. In looking over various positions I find myself drawn towards the "amill" view. I guess my question is this, for those who accept this school of thought, how does it help keep Revelation in context with the rest of Scripture , what in it gives hope and edification too you? I meet with my Pastor every Thursday and I may borrow a book or two and talk about this. But in the the meantime, would love feedback here. Grace and Peace.

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~etexas~

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~etexas~

I don't have an answer for you, but if you are also looking for resources, I am sure this series of lectures by Art Azurdia will help:
Exposition of the Book of Revelation by Arturo G. Azurdia III

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Brian Vandenburg
Attend Intown Presbyterian Church (PCA)
"The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, depends not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God."-Westminster Confession of Faith
http://wittenberg1517.wordpress.com/

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John J.
Member Christ Prebyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

I like the title of a gospel song I've heard - I Read the Back of the Book, And We Win!

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The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I am in-between an amill and a post mill position,but here is how I think you can help to find an answer to your question,when you asked this:

After the ascension of Christ Acts1, the preaching of the gospel Acts 2-7, the persecution and further spread of the church and the gospel Acts 8-13,
The new converts might have had some questions they needed to have answered in light of the persecution that came to the followers of Christ.
1] Where is Jesus now?
2] What is he doing?
3]How should we handle the opposition to the gospel?
4]What is happening short term? {on earth}
5] What happens long term? {on earth}
6] What about the final judgement day?
7] What about the eternal state?
The Revelation of Jesus Christ answers all these questions and along with the book of Hebrews, goes into great detail about our Lord's work as the Lamb slain, also being our Great High Priest.
It is a Revelation , not a concealing, or scrambled puzzle that we need to make complicated charts of.
The blessing is in the fact of over 45 mentions of the throne, and the Lamb who was slain is now on the throne, and our access to the same throne in and thru Our Great High Priest, we can now, draw near.
Hebrews 2, 4, 7,9, 10,> Rev. 1-5

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Anthony D'Arienzo
Sunday School Teacher
Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
Medford, N.Y.

From an experiential standpoint, I draw comfort from the fact that it is a revelation of Jesus Christ (1:1), my Saviour and Lord.

Put that in the forefront of your mind no matter what eschatological perspective you may hold.

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Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA
Church Blog

"there is no creature, either in heaven or on earth, who loves us more than Jesus Christ"
Belgic Confession, Article 26

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

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1689 Baptist Confession

Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley, Wilderness Road Baptist Assembly.
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
www.wildernessroadbaptist.org

I do agree, also keep in mind that the greek word for revelation is the word apokalupsis. It's often said that the word in the english (apocalypse) means the end of the world. This can create confusion and make us think that Revelation is specifically about the end times rather than the unveiling about Christ.

etexas,

I used to not really like The Revelation, due largely to the abuse it is subject to in our present age. But, I figured I needed to understand it better, and started listening through Azurdia's sermons (they're not lectures) on the book. And the work God did in my heart and life was phenomenal. My love for the Savior exploded as I saw that in the book, the church is described as it is in its present Exodus - God's covenant faithfulness - God's allowance of evil to a point, and no further without his command - God's binding of Satan over the believer. Holding an amill. position gives me great hope: we win! It also helps me to see that the evil in the time between the visits of Christ is all guided and intentional. It helps me to see the spiritual bankruptcy of the world, and to see the devices of Satan as he seeks to pollute the Gospel and deceive the world. It's appropriately called the picture book of the Bible - it paints deep, rich, and powerful pictures of the spiritual condition of the world. I also find ch. 5 and 6 to be some of the most important chapters in all of scripture in my love for God, as well as the doctrine of God.

Were as before I might have said that Revelation was important merely because it's in the Bible, now, after Azurdia's wonderful exposition of the book, I see the extreme value it had to the Christians he was writing to, as well as us today. In it I see God promising a covenant bride to Christ, and keeping that people for him. The book itself is a long plead for perseverance, which you will see more clearly when you see all the imagery opened up.

I highly recommend Azurdia's preaching on the book both for his exposition and his pastoral application of it. Also, if you get the chance to listen to them, take time to meditate on the book after words to let all the pictures sink in - they will strengthen and encourage your soul.

I'm hopeful as an amil. because I know God is sovereign, he holds his church, and that Jesus can return at any moment - so keep on persevering!

I hope this answers your question...

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Jacob
Sovereign Grace Ministries
Covenant Fellowship Church
West Chester, PA

"Grace renews nature; glory perfects grace." ~ John Owen
Blog - The Strasbourg Inn

I don't hold to the A-millenial position, but the rule of interpreting Scripture is Scripture itself (WCF 1:9). You cannot interpret or understand the Revelation of John without seeing it in context of the entirety of Holy Writ. John the Apostle, who wrote the Revelation also wrote the Gospel that bears his name. He uses much of the symbolism in both books. What better way to understand Revelation then to follow the author's motifs that he uses elsewhere. Revelation uses much of the same themes that are repeated throughout Scripture, such as covenantal language; you shall be my people and I shall be your God. If we read Revelation in isolation from the rest of Scripture we will fall into the dangerous trap of fanciful interpretation that many dispensationalist do.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:

No matter where you might be, or no matter how bad things appear to be and no matter you look at it, even if it looks really, really bad, the Lamb is going to be the victor. Follow Him! Overcome through His grace!

Actually, Jesus has already won! That is how it fits with the rest of scripture. SIMPLISTIC SUMMARY WARNING: The Old points to his coming and triumph; the New presents his victory and its effects in the world.

Its a great comfort....

Mike

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Mike Renihan
~Pastor, Heritage Baptist Church, Worcester, MA, ARBCA
~Executive Director, Mission::Ireland, "Bringing the Reformation to the Emerald Isle one book at a time."
~Professor, Worcester State College, Dept. of History & Political Science
~Publisher, B & R Press, Auburn, MA
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend; inside of a dog, its too dark to read." --Groucho

Thanks for that bit of insight! I was wondering if anyone else had anything to say about Azurdia's Exposition. I saw the recommendation and some "dittos" but i was hoping for some more insight.

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Brian E
Attending Christ Reformed Baptist Church
Milwaukee, WI

I wish to open my thread a bit more. It came across as is I were leaping into the Amill. camp. I am actually still open. So to expand this:If you are not Amill. where do you stand, and what do you feel is solid and cohesive in your respective understanding?

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~etexas~

I am open aswell.

When i first came to Christ i followed all that end time hype that is all over Christian media. I thought it was neat and interesting because as a Catholic i had never heard any of it before.

After a while i noticed that most of those people make news headlines their god and spend little (if any) time in the word outside of revelation. I could really expound on my thoughts but this is not the thread for that.

I have taken alot of time to just read God's word and now would be interested in reading along as this thread grows.

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Brian E
Attending Christ Reformed Baptist Church
Milwaukee, WI

Thank you! Every now and again I do an interesting thread!

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~etexas~

premil: one of the reasons why:

Amillennialism maintains a juxtaposition of the millennium iwth the church age. Okay so far.

Premillennialism maintains the millennium is sequential to the church age. Thus the differences.

Premillennialism can find indicators in the OT of passages of a renewed Eden-like state but not to where sin is wiped out completely (Psalm 72, the conversions in Isaiah 11--you can't be converted in heaven, for the contrary)

Thus amillennism really can't figure out what to do with these indicators (also see Ezekiel 36). To be consistent, they have to say that these also are concurrent with the church age. Many, for example, will argue that we experience these millennial blessings in our own lives. Problem is, this requires a significant weakining of the force of the passages. Wayne Grudem's systematic theology, section on eschatology, is probably the best.

And many will say, "Oh, but we interpret scripture with Scripture." Fine, with the exception of hard-core dispies, who doesn't? That statement doesn't tell me anything new.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Taking my alloted *bump* I see a lot of smart people right now!

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~etexas~

A good resource for the layman is William Hendriksen's More than Conquerors. It is an excellent exposition of the book of Revelation from the Realized Millennialist (A-Mil) point of view.

I also recommend The Returning King by Vern Poythress for a basic break down of the book of Revelation examining it from different viewpoints.

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Donald Jacobs
Marysville. WA
Cascade Church (CRCNA)

Cum vero infirmor tunc potens sum.

Cool! thanks for the recommends!

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~etexas~

I find it the amil position best fits with the eschatological framework clearly expounded elsewhere in Scripture, particularly the apostles, who understood the last days to be the church age and the day of salvation, and who also viewed the return of Christ, the resurrection, final judgment, and the consumation of the new heavens and earth as one climactic event. Until then we suffer and persevere to the end, just as Jesus did in his earthly life, and we receive glory after our resurrection, just as Jesus did.

Plus, frankly, the amil position of both evil and good ripening together, with the constant strain of spiritual warfare fits perfectly with Christian experience throughout the ages. The Church grows and the elect are gathered in spite of all they suffer, the seeds our sown by us, and reaped in God's good time. For the apostles, suffering was not defeat but victory, victory defined by Christ's own example, who conquered through the weak things in the eyes of the world.

This applies, not only to the macro view of church history, but the local congregation too, and your personal life. But that's just my

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Patrick
OPC
MDiv, RTS Jackson.

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.