Question about the rapture theory

calgal · #1 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 10:20 PM

I was asked by a curious dispy premill about the verse in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 discussing meeting Jesus in the clouds. I honestly ignore millenial stuff and want to give the questioner the courtesy of a nice Reformed answer.......

Thank you in advance for the answers.

Scott1 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-03-2009, 10:30 PM

Only a very general answer.

A "rapture" of sorts occurs when all men (the just and the unjust) are raised to judgment at Christ's return. This is part of one event in reformed theology.

In modern dispensational premillennialism, the "rapture" occurs as a separate event, apparently in secret, then a 1,000 years on man's calendar occurs which is the millennium, then comes the judgment for unbelievers. So, it is two separate events, separated by 1,000 years.

Since the Thessalonians verse mentions a shout, trump it does not fit well with the dispensational teaching of a quiet ("secret") rapturing of the church before Christ comes for a millennium.

ewenlin · #3 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 04:27 AM

Perhaps it's useful to show that this verse in its larger presentation is pastoral, to comfort those grieved and confused. The main point of the passage is the assurance that all that belong to Him will be with Him forever, united at the coming of Christ. Hence verse 18.

Scott is right too. It points more towards a public rather than secret rapture. Unless of course the archangel is dumb and the trumpet is mute.

Blue Tick · #4 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 08:14 AM

Something to consider, ask your friend to read through 1 and 2 Thess, and ask them to differentiate between the rapture and the second coming. All the Scriptures that Dispys use to define the pre-trib rapture are in fact referring to the second coming.

calgal · #5 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 09:02 AM

That was what I recommended: looking at both letters and asked about 2 Thess 1 & 2. I will recommend Sproul's book "The Last Days According to Jesus" to her also: it does explain the millenial views quite nicely. And Sproul explains the theories without the extrabiblical nonsense added by Mr. LaHaye....

Scott1 · #6 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 07:23 PM

GI Williamson's, The Westminster Confession of Faith for Study Classes has a concise description of the millennial views, with a chart at the end of the book.

(classical premillennialism, postmillennialism, amillenialism and modern dispensational premillennialism).

proverbs31woman · #7 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 07:49 PM

Wow, thanks everyone. I greatly benefited from all of this. I'd be interested in learning more ways in which that type of a rapture theory is wrong--or at least how to debunk it!

CharlieJ · #8 (**permalink**) 10-04-2009, 09:25 PM

This line of argumentation isn't quite as immediately useful, but it is very powerful for anyone who takes the time to check it out.

Quote:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

The word "coming" in vs. 15 is παρουσια (parousia), a word that in Hellenistic Greek often referred to the welcoming ceremony of a returning king. The citizens would go meet the king in the road and accompany him back to the city. Does the word always mean this? No, of course not. But, since we are talking about the return of a king to his people, there is a high probability of likelihood.

Second, in v. 17, the word "meet" is actually a noun. Rendered literally, the Greek reads, "We will be carried off ... for a meeting." (Note: the direction "up" is not a necessary part of the Greek verb ἁρπαζω, but is inferred from the context of Jesus being in the air). Now, the word translated "meeting" is απαντησις (apanta^sis). This word, which originally meant "an escort" in Classical Greek, often refers to accompanying someone on their journey. So you meet, and then travel with the person where he is going. This word is used in Matthew 25:6, where the bridesmaids go out to meet the groom to accompany him on his journey to the wedding banquet (an eschatological parable). It is also used in Acts 28:15-16 where believers here that Paul is coming to Rome, so they go out to meet him at the Forum of Appias and the Three Taverns and then turn around and accompany him into Rome. The direction of the "meeters" is determined by the direction of the one being met, and in 1 Thess. 4:16 it clearly says that the Lord is descending. Now, does the word always mean this? No, but again, one is struck by how natural such a reading is.

So, to sum up. Within the space of a few words, and in the context of Christ's coming, we find a word often used for a welcoming procession from a king, and also a word that often means to accompany someone on their journey. How easy it is to read the whole passage as Christ the King's return to his claim his earthly throne accompanied by his people who have been waiting for him! And the best thing is that it fits perfectly into both 1 and 2 Thessalonians, so we don't have to ask "which" coming is talked about in any given passage.