Sam Waldron is discussing the new book on the radio program. It will be downloadable sometime.
http://sharpens.blogspot.com/

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(Norseman Moderator)

R. Martin Snyder
1689er
Harmony Baptist Church (Member)
PuritanCovenanter MSN Blog
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"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
William Symington

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Hey Randy,

My friend showed me the book today at work. He's reading it and says MacArthur misrepresented the amill view and hence the book to refute MacArthur's stance..

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Bryan Wiley
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Reformed Baptist Church
Louisville, Kentucky

I finished it on the plane coming to Arkansas on vacation. Waldron did a fine job in lots of very short chapters. Quite irenic, yet killer logic. I would recommend it to any of my dispensational friends. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure they would not be dispensationalists after reading it and perhaps not my friends either.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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So, Dennis, are we meeting halfway somewhere in North South West Arkansas tomorrow for lunch or something?

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
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Randy,

Here are some of my reactions to reading the book . . .

Few contemporary writers have generated as many books as John MacArthur. With more than 26 commentaries, 43 books, and over a dozen study guides released under his name, the productive pastor of the Grace Community Church (Sun Valley, CA) has impacted today’s evangelicalism in many and varied ways. But, for many pastors, a highlight of the MacArthur ministry is the annual “Shepherd’s Conference,” held at the church. Last year, however, brought a surprise, as MacArthur variously delighted and outraged his standing room only audience of clergy. The topic? "Why Every Self-Respecting Calvinist is a Premillennialist."

The logic of the message was clear. Calvinists believe in the sovereignty of an electing God who acts monergistically. What eschatology better reflects the genius of such unilateral divine action than the one that is built on unconditional promises made to Abraham and to his descendents? In other words, what MacArthur was saying was that “every self-respecting Calvinist” should be a “premillennialist.”

But, here Dr. MacArthur uncharacteristically minced his words. For the oldest version of the view that Jesus would come to inaugurate a millennial rule on earth, the so-called “historic premillennialism,” has much in common with the other types of second coming schema popular in Christianity for the last two thousand years.

The historic premillennialist does not build a doctrine of last things upon a distinction between Israel and the Church, but upon the interpretation of a few verses in Revelation 20. Rather, it is only the dispensational type of premillennialism, with its unyielding differentiation between Israel and the Church that MacArthur thinks should be the position of every “self-respecting Calvinist.

Now a card-carrying Calvinist, DR. SAM WALDRON, one of the pastors of the Heritage Baptist Church of Ownesboro, Kentucky, and the Professor of Systematic Theology at the Midwest Center for Theological Studies, responds to MacArthur’s “manifesto” with a detailed analysis of the message.

In one of the most irenic rebuttals ever penned, Waldron shows continual respect for MacArthur and his ministry and tackles his topic with great gentleness but systematically dismantles the logic of the much talked about Shepherd’s Conference address that is actually printed as an appendix to the book.

If there were ever a book showing what contemporary amillennialists (those who contend that Jesus will return in a singular way at the end of the age to resurrect the dead, to judge the world, and to usher in the new heavens and the new earth) actually believe, this would be it.

Waldron carefully sweeps away the accumulated misunderstandings, mischaracterizations of the position by opponents, and mean-spirited polemics. Relying upon a command of the Bible, hermeneutics, and two millennia of Christian theology, Waldron writes with simple clarity in some of the shortest chapters in memory. The cumulative impact is to make any honest premillennialist want to become, if not an amillennarian, at least a more careful teacher on the subject of the return of Christ.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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Josh,

You can't imagine how much I would LOVE to do that! And, even though you are most likely teasing, I did broach the subject with my wife. Her reaction, understated as it was after considering the 5 hour distance from Fayetteville ("Are you INSANE? You come all of this way to spend time with your grandson that you have not seen since December and you want to take off and visit a PB friend?"), did not commit her to any particular position and voiced a cautious openness to the idea. So, upon reflection (on the rapidly bleeding cast iron skillet indentation in my forehead), perhaps we can get together the next time we are in your fair state?

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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Exactly. The buzz wasn't about MacArthur giving a sermon on premil, I mean, he's done that before at Shepherd's. The thing was, he tried to paint amils and Arminians with the same brush. He tried to give his current Sunday morning sermon series in a single hour. I've heard him do things like this before (Resolved 2006), and it worked well. To say the least, this one didn't.

He has been preaching through Luke for several years now. At the beginning of last year, he did a four part series called "Seven Characteristics of the Coming Messiah" and another set called "The Invisible Kingdom". There are definite points in which his Shepherd's sermon intersects with these, but the biggest difference between the two would be that his sermon series had the potential to persuade others to the premil conviction while his Shepherd's sermon did not. As one blogger pointed out, all he did was give premil's more ammunition to work with, and left everyone else pretty ticked off.

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Dan Pemberton
Vacaville, CA

Member, First Baptist Church San Luis Obispo
Formerly ABUSA (We left, so I guess that makes us American Baptists Unleashed!)

Part of the problem was the disingenuousness of MacArthur making fun of the rapture fiction genre and the excesses of dispensational interpretation all the while defending as premillennialism a view that necessarily is held only by the dispensational interpreters. It was almost as if he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. His disavowel of "wacky dispensationalism" does not comport with his insistence upon getting "Israel" right. Only those who get Israel "right" according to MacArthur explain the Bible dispensationally. In his mind, historic premillennialism does NOT get Israel right. So, where does that leave him?

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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Dennis, send your wife my regards. Tell her I apologize for attempting to lure you into my web of Reformed-Arkansan fellowship.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
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I bet Dennis really wanted to meet Sirmon.

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Chris
OPC member
Now attending Grace Community Baptist Church
Mandeville, LA

"Faith alone saves, but it is a faith that works." - S. Lewis Johnson

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Having stopped the bleeding from the skillet head wound, I have recovered a bit. My grandson, daughter-in-law, wife and I finished a 3 mile walk. So, Jeanette is too tired to be very ticked at me and she reciprocates your regards. Actually, after listening to "Deficient Grace" and laughing her head off, she allowed: "I can see why you want to meet him. But, Dennnnnnnis NOT when you are with our grandson!" I think that means she was excited to hear of your offer and hopes that we will be able to get together soon, possibly as soon as the stitches come out, the subdural hematoma heals, and the rehab folks get me walking again by myself . . . on the next visit to Arkansas?

All teasing aside, with my son planning to stay in his law firm and in the Ozarks permanently, there actually is a pretty good chance of us getting together on a future trip.

Back on topic . . . MacArthur thought that his message would solidify the case for a Calvinistic-dispensationalism (cf. S. Lewis Johnson). Unfortunately, even some of the folks who agree with his eschatology did not find his straw-man manifesto convincing. And, insofar as it aroused Riddlebarger and Waldron to respond (both amill, but one paedo and the other credo), it may actually do more damage to his position in the long run.

As I noted in a previous thread, there seems to be a tendency for a significant number of people "saved and sanctified" within a dispensational environment to migrate to Calvinism as they begin to read more widely in theological literature. There does not, however, appear to be much of a trend in the opposite direction.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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Dennis, did she have to listen to the Old Version of Deficient Grace, or the New One?

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
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Only the new and improved.

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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Dan Pemberton
Vacaville, CA

Member, First Baptist Church San Luis Obispo
Formerly ABUSA (We left, so I guess that makes us American Baptists Unleashed!)

Dennis,

I am taking a few days off from the board to give myself and the paedo's a rest from the baptism threads. I was getting tired of the rhetoric and ended up becoming just as rhetorical.

That was an awesome summary of what I got out of the book. I sent it to Rich Barcellos and Eddie Goodwin.

Thanks for that great evaluation.

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(Norseman Moderator)

R. Martin Snyder
1689er
Harmony Baptist Church (Member)
PuritanCovenanter MSN Blog
PuritanCovenanter's MySpace Page

"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
William Symington

Click to get:Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Thanks, Randy,

I truly appreciate your initial tip about Waldron's rejoinder to MacArthur. Now I am in Riddlebarger (with Venema yet to go).

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Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Dennis,
For someone wh