Metanarrative of Western Drama: Amil?

Puritan Sailor · #1 (**permalink**) 09-29-2007, 03:56 PM

I was just thinking for a bit about our Western cultural eschatology, especially in story telling (books, movies, etc.). Those stories which are considered the "best" by our culture seem to follow common themes that everyone loves. There's act one, introduction of characters and dilemma. Act 2, put the good guys in the worst possible position they could be in with almost no hope, despite their valiant efforts. Act 3, a crisis victory where the hero despite all odds, wipes out the enemy quickly and ushers in peace. Now, as our cultural morality has shifted over the years, it seems that "good" ethics are often compromised in the stories even by the "good guys", but the overall framework still seems the same. And this theme seems to transcend almost all genres of storytelling (sci-fi, fantasy, drama, comedy, etc.).

It seems to parallel the common understanding of Amil eschatology, where the Church despite it's continuing growth and faithfulness, continues to grow in conflict with evil, and will not be resolved until the arrival of Christ to deliver his people in a great victory.

What do you all think? Am I off my rocker? Just a curious coincidence? Perhaps the influence of Christianity on our culture lingering on? Is this overall theme of story different in cultures not influenced by Christianity? How would you describe their overall eschatology?

Ivanhoe · #2 (**permalink**) 09-30-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

I was just thinking for a bit about our Western cultural eschatology, especially in story telling (books, movies, etc.). Those stories which are considered the "best" by our culture seem to follow common themes that everyone loves. There's act one, introduction of characters and dilemma. Act 2, put the good guys in the worst possible position they could be in with almost no hope, despite their valiant efforts. Act 3, a crisis victory where the hero despite all odds, wipes out the enemy quickly and ushers in peace. Now, as our cultural morality has shifted over the years, it seems that "good" ethics are often compromised in the stories even by the "good guys", but the overall framework still seems the same. And this theme seems to transcend almost all genres of storytelling (sci-fi, fantasy, drama, comedy, etc.).

It seems to parallel the common understanding of Amil eschatology, where the Church despite it's continuing growth and faithfulness, continues to grow in conflict with evil, and will not be resolved until the arrival of Christ to deliver his people in a great victory.

What do you all think? Am I off my rocker? Just a curious coincidence? Perhaps the influence of Christianity on our culture lingering on? Is this overall theme of story different in cultures not influenced by Christianity? How would you describe their overall eschatology?

Historic (or covenantal, as I like to call it) can affirm the same things. I think it is a good analysis and while it wasn't one of the reasons I dropped postmil, I was thinking along these lines when I did so. I might email you some other reasons...

Puritan Sailor · #3 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 09:19 AM

I guess we are the only ones who think about this stuff. Where are all the Tolkien fans?

fredtgreco · #4 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 09:47 AM

Patrick,

I think what you describe is a good analysis, and is typical of most literature in this vein. I believe that it accurately represents (for example) a summary of Aristotle's Poetics and his analysis of drama.

victorbravo · #5 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

Patrick,

I think what you describe is a good analysis, and is typical of most literature in this vein. I believe that it accurately represents (for example) a summary of Aristotle's Poetics and his analysis of drama.

I was thinking along the same lines. Of course, if Aristotle was talking about this, that sort of negates the Christianity premise.

But I think it really goes back to our human condition post-fall. Every culture, as far as I can tell, has had some sort of disaster-triumph motif. I think it comes from people remembering, one way or another, the truth of Genesis 3.

fredtgreco · #6 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victorbravo

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

Patrick,

I think what you describe is a good analysis, and is typical of most literature in this vein. I believe that it accurately represents (for example) a summary of Aristotle's Poetics and his analysis of drama.

I was thinking along the same lines. Of course, if Aristotle was talking about this, that sort of negates the Christianity premise.

But I think it really goes back to our human condition post-fall. Every culture, as far as I can tell, has had some sort of disaster-triumph motif. I think it comes from people remembering, one way or another, the truth of Genesis 3.

Vic,

and motifs. I chalk it up to the concept that C.S. Lewis calls the I think of this in the same way that many Greek myths mimic (or warp) Biblical narratives"Tao" in Abolition of Man.

Puritan Sailor · #7 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 07:05 PM

I've seen a few asain epic movies and it seems their "hero's" are more tragic figures. For instance, Hero, House of Flying Daggers, And Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. I know these are probably not Eastern classics, but they do illustrate non-Western story telling, and the eschatology of the story seems less climactic. Victory seems not so well defined, and it appears that loyalty to the community is more important than personal virtures, troubles, or concerns. It seems that victory is determined more by personal vindication through the later effects of the hero's influence, rather than immediate deliverance from evil. Perhaps a more "post-mil" eschatology? Any thoughts or other examples?

a mere housewife · #8 (**permalink**) 10-01-2007, 10:12 PM

Patrick have you seen Musa the Warrior? Beautiful Asian epic, though pretty unmitigatedly violent. It wasn't dehumanising though: I realized watching it that there are things worth being defeated for. (also there is a section that is very strongly symbolic that true freedom is to bind oneself voluntarily away) I think there is a significant triumph in that -- a triumph some Greek drama seems to me to lack -- there are things even worth watching your children be defeated for. The existence of those things, even in the face of defeat, is the ultimate victory. I don't think that parallels an eschatological experience so much (It's hard to conceive of a dispensational eschatology being beautiful enough, with their ugly theories about the locusts being UFOs etc, to inspire that kind of beauty); but it does seem to speak very significantly to an experience of being defeated now, but knowing that ultimately the stronger thing, stronger by virtue of existing at all in the face of all other things, will have been proved as one believes it to be (and if it wasn't strong and true how could it be believed in?), worth the sacrifice. Greek drama seems utterly empty to me at times, because they seem to lack that. The ultimate resolution that one senses is to get fame, to be considered a hero by others, to resort to a superficial meaning -- the only possible heroism and meaning when the gods may be evil; the right thing may not be worth doing; the right thing can't be done because of the cycle that one is caught in. The Greeks seemed horribly conscious of original sin, and the only thing they had to snatch at was the most passing glory. Lewis says Norse myth is quite hopeless: the gods go into their burning houses and die like men. This is a kind of glory. Lewis thinks actually that Christianity is not the most poetic belief there is; if it were merely a matter of aesthetic attraction, he would have believed in evolution as being more similar to the Norse mythology. But I read elsewhere - Carlyle? that after all the gods die, the world is reborn, and the beloved god rises and reigns. I wondered if their myths reflected the ushering in of the eschaton on the Cross. Most of their gods were evil. (I just looked Balder up on expedia: 'Apart from this gushing description Baldr is known primarily for the myth surrounding his death. His death is seen as the first in the chain of events which will ultimately lead to the destruction of the gods at Ragnarok. Baldr will be reborn in the new world, however, as foretold in the Völuspá. With this resurrection in mind, he is classified as a life-death-rebirth deity.')

I think the symbols of fairy tale are bound into eschatology: magic swords and dragons, a prince on a white horse, a princess in distress.

Puritan Sailor · #9 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 10:12 AM

Very interesting. I'll have to check that Musa out. I also recall another tragic Asian epic, Curse of the Golden Flower (?). Just came out recently. It's an interesting story of deception, betrayal, and loyalty, yet in the end, the king, the bad guy who was causing it all won. In the end he is also the good guy because the king is absolute and no one is suppose to disturb the order of nature by disputing with him, no matter how noble or evil the intentions. It's actually quite disturbing. I would call the eschatology, more cyclic or even Greek. Good rises and then falls.