Hi I'm new here so I thought I'll start a topic.

Does anyone know what the difference is between Historic premillennialism and progressive dispensationalism? They're both post trib, premill and have similar views on the "kingdom age". Is the only difference that one is coming from covenantal perspective while the other is from dispensational perspective?

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Rev Jonathan James Goundry
*Calvinist @ Heart
Missionary with International Christian Institute www.iciministry.org
www.fide-o.com
www.vanvos.blogspot.com
www.unchainedradio.com

Interesting - I didn't think dispensationalism (progressive or not) was ever associated with any other view but pre-trib.

Weren't the two guys who "popularized" progressive dispensationalism (blaising and bock (sp?)) from Dallas? I thought all Dallas profs. were pre-trib dispys.

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Karen S. Johnson
Member, Tampa Covenant Church
Tampa, FL

"The venerable dead are waiting in my library to entertain me and relieve me from the nonsense of surviving mortals." - Samuel Davies

" True love likes to become familiar with the object of its affection; its heart is set upon that object, it studies it,
and can never know it too well or too closely. True love to Christ thinks of Him from morning till night; it is glad to be released from other thoughts that it may follow only its one darling pursuit."

- C.H. Spurgeon

Karen,

Although the pre-trib system of thought originates with dispensationalism, it does not follow that all dispensationalists are pre-trib. There are also, mid-trib post-trib and pre-wrath rapturists that are dispensational.

As for the original question: I am not sure I know of any major differences, other than that progressive dispensationalists look for a future conversion of the Jews to Christ during the future millenium, whereas the historic premillenialists do not necessarily hold a future restoration of Israel to Christ.

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Dan Harris. -member of Westminster OPC, Indian Head Park, IL

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Historical Premillennialism is greatly misunderstood today with the growing popularity of the post-trib rapture view. Many people think that Historic Premill is nothing more than simply post-trib rapturism. But this is not true. Historic Premill has most often been associated with a covenantal view of history and an historicist interpretation of Revelation, or at least historically that is the case. The millennium is not viewed in Historic Premill as a time where Jesus sits on a literal throne in Jerusalem with the Jews higher on Jesus' agenda than the church. It is simply a time of general peace upon the earth for a 1,000 years. Progressive Dispensationalism still holds the distinction between Israel and the church, although it adopts somewhat of an already/not yet view of the Kingdom in which the Kingdom currently has application today, but will have a greater fulfillment when the nation of Israel is converted. These are the things that I gleaned from the Progressive Dispies at Liberty U when I was there.

Thanks that's very informative. Mind you some progressive dispys don't hold to the supremacy of the Jews in the millennium, certainly not in classic dispensational sense.

VanVos

I'm pretty sure most progressive dispensationals still hold to the pretrib rapture. Definitly Blaising and Bock. Has this changed?

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Pete Richert
member, Dayspring Chapel
Austin ,TX

I think progressive dispensationalism started off pre-trib, but I see a lot posttrib material associated with PD

http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/pd/index.html

VanVos

VanVos,

Curious how you came across the website you posted. Tim Warner went to my old church (offspring of Dallas Theological Seminary) for a while and was asked to leave b/c of his post-trib propaganda. It was extreme - almost militant - lets go buy guns and property in the sticks so that the government won't find us and persecute us. They "predicted" the rapture a few years ago...

Then there's his semi-pelagianism...

Don't know much about it but hopefully there are other...more sound examples of prog. dispensationalism being associated with the post-trib view...

[quote:3b3f06f948][i:3b3f06f948]Originally posted by luvroftheWord[/i:3b3f06f948]
Historical Premillennialism is greatly misunderstood today with the growing popularity of the post-trib rapture view. Many people think that Historic Premill is nothing more than simply post-trib rapturism. But this is not true. Historic Premill has most often been associated with a covenantal view of history and an historicist interpretation of Revelation, or at least historically that is the case. The millennium is not viewed in Historic Premill as a time where Jesus sits on a literal throne in Jerusalem with the Jews higher on Jesus' agenda than the church. It is simply a time of general peace upon the earth for a 1,000 years. Progressive Dispensationalism still holds the distinction between Israel and the church, although it adopts somewhat of an already/not yet view of the Kingdom in which the Kingdom currently has application today, but will have a greater fulfillment when the nation of Israel is converted. These are the things that I gleaned from the Progressive Dispies at Liberty U when I was there. [/quote:3b3f06f948]

Premillennialists of all stripes teach that the Millennium follows the second coming of Christ. Classic premils and dispensational premils both place Christ on earth during the 1000 years.

The main distinction between classic premils and dispensational premils is over the relationship between the church and Israel. Since the dispensational schema makes a distinction (some more radical than others), this view necessitates a rapture of the church (aka the heavenly people of God) before the events of the great tribulation that come upon Israel (the earthly people of God).

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Tom Albrecht
Elder elect, Covenant URCNA, New Holland, PA.

"When I find the time, I'm going to write the social history of bourbon."