Greetings:

If a person holds to Full Preterism and all of the other doctrines of the Reformation, can we consider him/her "Reformed"?

I ask this because a man that I am emailing with insists that he is Reformed even though he holds to hyper-Preterism.

-CH

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In Essentials Unity, in non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity.

Robert Paul Wieland
Springs Reformed Presbyterian Church
Colorado Springs, CO RPCNA
Student at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Pittsburgh PA
B.B. Warfield's definition of Theological Students: "Angels preparing to sound the Trumpets."

As far as i know, the full preterism denies a future bodly resurrection, if that is true, than ofcourse they can not be reformed !

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* Ralph Wilms (7-10-1974)
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Robert,

If we define "Reformed" according to the Confessions (3FU, WCF, etc.) then the answer is "no." Each of the Confessions explicitly states that there is a future bodily resurrection. Furthermore, the nature of the resurrection is a central doctrine and not a secondary one (e.g. mode of baptism, length of creation days).

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Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

for a person to be reformed and be a full preterist they have to be disgustingly confused. I can't even fathom how a person could be a Christian and a full preterist must less reformed and a full preterist.

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~Keon Garraway~ Brooklyn, NY Member of Franklin Square OPC

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Pslam 71:20 [Thou], which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

They are Calvinistic in soteriology by necessity. If you believe that judgment day occurred in 70 AD, then you cannot be Arminian. They are not 'reformed' however because they belive in 'solo' scriptura.

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http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/

Could you explain this further? I don't see the connection.

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Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA
Church Blog

"there is no creature, either in heaven or on earth, who loves us more than Jesus Christ"
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Can a full preterist be a Christian?

(No)

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

Is the absence of Arminianism necessarily Calvinism?

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Brad
PCA Member
Virginia

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The second coming (not in 70 AD) and resurrection of the dead is a fundemental belief of the Christian faith. So no, a full preterist is not a Christian.

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~Wayne Wylie~
Member, Mid Cities Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Ruling Elder - Inactive
http://www.mcopc.org
Bedford, TX

Job 28:28 - And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

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Having rejected the bodily resurrection, they have rejected Biblical salvation - which is damnable heresy.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Hyper-preterists say that they believe that judgment happened in 70 AD. Q. How could He have judged me 2000 years before I was born? A. His judgment was based on God's election and predestination. Therefore, to be a hyper-preterist you must believe in predestination and election. In their minds, this makes them 'Reformed'.

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http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/

What about a partial preterist?

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N. Robert; Trinity Reformed Church RCA, Holland MI

Once in a while you can get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right."

There are many partial-preterists in the reformed world. R.C. Sproul & Ken Gentry come to mind, but there are many, many more.

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Tyler Upchurch
Talkative Fellow
Grace Chapel Primitive Baptist Church
Mason, TN
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My Library!

Speaking of full prets.... can you guys pray for Jason ?

At a crossroads - Holy Culture Radio Community Forum

Thanks.

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K. Joel Gilliard
Theologically Correct dot Com
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The Upcoming CD: The Definition

They do not reject a bodily resurrection. They believe in a body that is raised a 'spiritual body'. They hold to a 'spiritual vision' model of the eternal state.

Whether they are Christians or not is an interesting question, but technically they do believe in a resurrection.

(I am not defending what they say they believe, but defending the possibility of their salvation.)

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http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/

BTW, you are playing right into their hands when you refer to them as 'full' preterists and Gentry et al as 'partial' preterists. (By calling Gentry 'partial' it sounds like you are calling him 'inconsistant') Technically, Gentry is a preterist while they are not even in the conversation.

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http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/

I'm an orthodox preterist!

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Adam Leavelle
Westminster OPC
Roaring Spring Pa.

http://www.myspace.com/aleavelle
"Speak wisdom to a fool and he'll think you have no sense at all"

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I have prayed for Jason but now must point out the 'woe is me' attitude of the hyper-preterist. They accuse confessional churches of being mean and unsympathetic towards them. They claim that their view is just another millenial formula and should be accepted as equal to pre, post, or amillenialism.

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http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/

Greetings:

I will pray for Jason.

Rev. Kok asked for a further explanation.

I agree with all of you here that the bodily resurrection is a fundamental aspect of all Christian theology. When I brought this to my friend's attention he said that he believed we all receive a spiritual body after death. Thus, he gets around the idea of a final resurrection day by stating that at death believers are resurrected and broght into heaven..

I mentioned to him that Jesus physically rose from the dead, and he answered that such was before 70 AD.

How to answer such I know not.

Blessings,

-CH

__________________
In Essentials Unity, in non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity.

Robert Paul Wieland
Springs Reformed Presbyterian Church
Colorado Springs, CO RPCNA
Student at Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Pittsburgh PA
B.B. Warfield's definition of Theological Students: "Angels preparing to sound the Trumpets."

But they reject a physical bodily resurrection, which is the faith of orthodox Christianity; anyone who denies this is outside the bounds of the Christian faith.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Good point; I shall have to give it some thought ; perhaps orthodox preterist is a better term.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

A point of clarification. When I say that a full preterist is not a Christian it is based on the fact that the bodily resurrection (and I mean a real human body not a spiritual body) and final judgement have been fundemental to the Christian faith since the beginning. I could not imagine that there would be a Session out there that would not require a member of their church to repent of such a belief as full preterism or face excommunication.

The fact that they believe in "a resurrection" is inconsequential. Arians believe Christ was the Son of God but with a twist; he was a created being not eternal and therefore they are not Christians.

BTW, I'm not coming down on you. I understand that you are not defending their position.

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~Wayne Wylie~
Member, Mid Cities Presbyterian Church (OPC)