...thought it not robbery to be equal with God...

blhowes · #1 (**permalink**) 08-08-2009, 06:37 PM

(KJV) 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

I've been trying to understand what the above phrase means. I figured maybe robbery meant something different when the kJV was written, so I looked it up in Webster's dictionary:

: the act or practice of robbing; specifically : larceny from the person or presence of another by violence or threat

Not much different from what I'd expected robbery to mean.

The Greek word used for robbery (in both Byzantine and WH) is:

G725
harpagmos
From G726; plunder (properly concrete): - robbery.

Again, not much different from what I'd expected robbery to mean.

Why would Jesus think it robbery to be equal with God?

Also, why do most other versions translate it "to be grasped'?

(NIV) 6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
(NASB) 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
(ESV) 6who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

***fredtgreco*** · #2 (**permalink**) 08-08-2009, 07:22 PM

Bob,

Harpagmos is only used in that single place in the NT (Phil. 2:6). That makes it difficult (but not impossible) to translate in the way in which Paul meant it, since we have no comparisons in Scripture.

It is a noun, and hence attempt to translate it somewhat as a verb leave it flat. It can mean "robbery" but it also clearly has the meaning of the "thing robbed and held onto." That's where the "grasped" part comes from. It is something that someone (usually robbers) hold onto by force, without regard to others (usually the rightful owner) and their rights. It can also be standing on one's own right to something without giving any thought to others.

So in context, Christ did not jealously guard His own rights, or hold them at all cost (particularly the cost it would have been to His people). An illustration I have used in a sermon is the picture we get in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. You may recall the image of the woman who could not let go of the holy grail, even at the cost of her own life. She was so obsessed with grasping onto it, that she lost all. That is a picture of someone guilty of harpagmos.

Christians are to have the same attitude as Christ (2:5) and to "hold on loosely" to the things of the world - money, time, their own rights - for the sake of their Lord and His Kingdom.

You can hear more of what I mean in my sermon on Phil. 2:5-8, found here:
Christ Church PCA Philippians

The portion on point is at about the 29 minute mark.

SolaScriptura · #3 (**permalink**) 08-08-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

An illustration I have used in a sermon is the picture we get in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. You may recall the image of the woman who could not let go of the holy grail, even at the cost of her own life. She was so obsessed with grasping onto it, that she lost all. That is a picture of someone guilty of harpagmos.

Good illustration! I'll have to ... borrow... that one from you!

TeachingTulip · #4 (**permalink**) 08-08-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blhowes

(KJV) 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

I've been trying to understand what the above phrase means. I figured maybe robbery meant something different when the kJV was written, so I looked it up in Webster's dictionary:

: the act or practice of robbing; specifically : larceny from the person or presence of another by violence or threat

Not much different from what I'd expected robbery to mean.

The Greek word used for robbery (in both Byzantine and WH) is:

G725
harpagmos
From G726; plunder (properly concrete): - robbery.

Again, not much different from what I'd expected robbery to mean.

Why would Jesus think it robbery to be equal with God?

Also, why do most other versions translate it "to be grasped'?

(NIV) 6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
(NASB) 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
(ESV) 6who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

One cannot steal something that is rightfully his.

However, one can choose to not hoard what is his, but rather, relinquish what is his, in order to benefit others.

**Marrow Man** · #5 (**permalink**) 08-08-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolaScriptura

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

An illustration I have used in a sermon is the picture we get in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. You may recall the image of the woman who could not let go of the holy grail, even at the cost of her own life. She was so obsessed with grasping onto it, that she lost all. That is a picture of someone guilty of harpagmos.

Good illustration! I'll have to ... borrow... that one from you!

It is an excellent illustration. You might not be only one doing the "borrowing" (or should I say grasping

).

SolaScriptura · #6 (**permalink**) 08-08-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marrow Man

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolaScriptura

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

An illustration I have used in a sermon is the picture we get in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. You may recall the image of the woman who could not let go of the holy grail, even at the cost of her own life. She was so obsessed with grasping onto it, that she lost all. That is a picture of someone guilty of harpagmos.

Good illustration! I'll have to ... borrow... that one from you!

It is an excellent illustration. You might not be only one doing the "borrowing" (or should I say grasping

).

Well, we wouldn't want Fred to "grasp" his illustration, now would we?

***fredtgreco*** · #7 (**permalink**) 08-08-2009, 11:51 PM

Well, to look to the interests of others, and not only myself...

Permission granted!

Ask Mr. Religion · #8 (**permalink**) 08-09-2009, 02:16 AM

I think armourbearer captured the teaching well here, quoting Murray:

Quote:

John Murray (Collected Writings, 3:236) captures the sense: "There is also the dignity of his station, 'equal with God.' He was on an equality with God. This equality is not an accession either by robbery or attainment. He did not consider his being on an equality with God something he had gained or was to gain. It was not something of precarious tenure; it was the consequence of his being and continuing to be in the form of God and, therefore, his natively, essentially, and immutably. The thought of the clauses may be paraphrased thus: being in the form of God and, therefore, not considering his being on an equality with God a prize or booty but an inalienable possession, he made himself of no reputation."

The emphasis falls upon the fact that equality is something in rightful possession, not something to be posessed.

A keeper!

AMR

blhowes · #9 (**permalink**) 08-09-2009, 07:41 AM

Thanks for your help. It makes much more sense now.