Thread: Ephesians 4:9

Hello All,

I searched for a thread on this verse, and didn't find one, so here goes:

What are the "lower parts of the earth" in Ephesians 4:9?

Are they the same as the <<kah-toe-tah-tah taes gaes>> of Psalm 63:9 in the LXX?

Does this refer to Christ's Descendit, or to His Incarnation? If the the Incarnation, why in juxtaposition with His Ascension? Also, why not just state that Christ descended to the earth; why the lower parts if that might confuse the reader about the OT usage re: Hades etc.?

I wish I knew how to do that cool Greek font, but, Alas, I wot not!

Cheers,

Adam

-----Added 12/22/2008 at 08:38:45 EST-----

Anyone? Class? Beuler? Beuler? Beuler?

(Geneva) Isaiah 44:23 Reioyce, ye heauens: for the Lorde hath done it: shoute, ye lower partes of the earth: brast foorth into prayses, ye mountaines, O forest and euery tree therein: for the Lorde hath redeemed Iaakob and will be glorified in Israel.

The contrast in Ephesians seems to be the same

Eph 4:9 (In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?

that is, between Heaven and Earth.

One of the Targums interprets the phrase to mean the womb, so I guess it's covered from all angles. Yes, I know I cheated a bit by picking and choosing among translations :-)

Originally Posted by TimV

(Geneva) Isaiah 44:23 Reioyce, ye heauens: for the Lorde hath done it: shoute, ye lower partes of the earth: brast foorth into prayses, ye mountaines, O forest and euery tree therein: for the Lorde hath redeemed Iaakob and will be glorified in Israel.

The contrast in Ephesians seems to be the same

Eph 4:9 (In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?

that is, between Heaven and Earth.

One of the Targums interprets the phrase to mean the womb, so I guess it's covered from all angles. Yes, I know I cheated a bit by picking and choosing among translations :-)

Tim,

Good point about Isaiah. HOwever, the LXX does not use the parallel phrase that is used in both Psalm 68 and Ephesians 4. The LXX uses <<them-eh-lee-yah taes gaes>>, which is not the same phrasing as the other passages. I would take the meaning, therefore, to be different. Any thoughts on that?

Cheers,

Adam

P.S. Crafty use of translations!

?

Isa 66:1 Thus says the LORD: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest?

I believe Paul is referring to the incarnation.

Psalm 139.15: My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth

Jesus' ascension is associated with His rising from earth to heaven. That is the contrast of the verse. Not only did Jesus condescend to become man, but also endured death and burial, which is as low as man can go in regard to earth. The contrast between heaven and earth, or the grave, is indescribable.

I apologize for the brevity of my post earlier as I was in the middle of something else. When I say that I believe Paul was speaking about Christ's incarnation, I believe His incarnation is put forth as indicative of the entirety of his humiliation, much like WLC 46:

Question # 46: What Was the Estate of Christ’s Humiliation?

Answer:
The estate of Christ’s humiliation was that low condition, wherein he for our sakes, emptying himself of his glory, took upon him the form of a servant, in his conception and birth, life, death, and after his death, until his resurrection.

Originally Posted by Rev. Todd Ruddell

I apologize for the brevity of my post earlier as I was in the middle of something else. When I say that I believe Paul was speaking about Christ's incarnation, I believe His incarnation is put forth as indicative of the entirety of his humiliation, much like WLC 46:

Question # 46: What Was the Estate of Christ’s Humiliation?

Answer:
The estate of Christ’s humiliation was that low condition, wherein he for our sakes, emptying himself of his glory, took upon him the form of a servant, in his conception and birth, life, death, and after his death, until his resurrection.

Rev. Ruddell,

Thank you for the input! I found Psalm 139 particularly helpful as the LXX uses a similar phrase as Ephesians 4.

Cheers,

Adam