"A widow is to be put on the list only if she is not less than sixty years old..."

What is this list? And what is it's purpose?

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Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Father of Oliver
Master of Bruce
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

What can I say, I like blogs!

I always understood it to be a list maintained by the church to identify and aid true widows.

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Ben Franks

I attend: Ketoctin Covenant Presbyterian Church (OPC)
in Purcellville, Virginia
I'm a member of: Heartland Community Church (PCA)
in Wichita, Kansas
I blog here (along with my Dad): http://rrfranks.blogspot.com/
And I'm a student here: www.phc.edu

"Remember the speeches we have spoken so often over our mead, when we raised boast on the bench, heroes in the hall, about hard fighting. Now may the man who is bold prove that he is."-Aelfwine at the Battle of Maldon

We discussed this for thee days in a college class. It is most likely either a list for aid, or for widows who do work for the church, or both.

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We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis

Convent

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DonP

I think, in context of the surrounding passages in Romans and elsewhere, this is talking about a class of women who were destitute financially and likely would remain so. They had no husband, family, or other means to provide for their needs.

This has always been a class of dependent persons throughout history and our phrase "widows and orphans" expresses that.

If the widow's life was exemplary and evidenced service and mercy, she could be supported by the church, at the church's expense and dedicate herself to an office in the church of performing works of mercy to all, but particularly appropriately to other women.

This appears to be an office, probably set apart by prayer and vow, under the authority of the Elders and Deacons, to perform "good works" or mercy and service as needed in the church, somewhat in return for the church taking responsibility to her support her and hold her accountable to those vows.

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Scott
PCA
North Carolina


"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)"
Hebrews 10:23

What about it gives the appearance of an office?

Remember that orphans and widows were vulnerable, in the sense that they did not have male oversight. Don't go bashing me for this, it's just the way it was. When a woman married, she left her father's oversight and came under her husband's. If there was a divorce or she was widowed early enough, she could return to her father's roof. But an older widow would not have that societal protection. How would she earn her bread? I believe this was a ministry of mercy to the elderly widows of the church, nothing more.

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Clark Brooking
Pastor
Living Hope Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Clarksville, MD

I've always wondered why sixty was the cut-off age. The passage mentions that younger widows could remarry and bear children, but childbearing capacity, for many (most?) women ends long before sixty. Also, I've heard some use this passage to say that, for example, a 57-year-old in a bad situation could not be financially helped -- surely this is wrong. Is the enrollment a distinction between temporary and permanent help?

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Evie B.
New Members Class, RPCNA, Cambridge, Massachusetts

Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. -- Isaiah 43:18-19 (ESV)

I think it is an approximation not an absolute. But 50 is pretty common for the change now and may have been later then. But not essential she is still child bearing, but more that she is no longer wonton, tempted to want more than a holy kiss.

And for those who think the list is an office of deacon, no it was assistant Deacon, women can't be deacons.

Don't you think it would help our churches today if we had the position, non-office of Asst Deacon.
Then they have a title for the duty; they may be called upon to accompany a male deacon or elder to do visits with women esp. and also where the may have useful skills, cooking, nursing, etc. whatever is needed, while the deacon chops her some wood or fixes her computer.

I think you are right that the enrolment is a distinction between two types of charity taught in the bible. Normally, charity is only extended to those who are helping themselves as much as they possibly can. Paul said if someone just doesn't want to work, the church should let him go hungry (2 Thess 3:10). Even in OT Israel, charity to widows and orphans was to make it easier for them to work for a living - by gleaning fields like Ruth. But godly charity to these people did not normally entail full time support. They still had to go out to the fields and do their bit.

Deuteronomy 24:19 When thou cuttest down thine harvest in thy field, and hast forgot a sheaf in the field, thou shalt not go again to fetch it: it shall be for the stranger, for the fatherless, and for the widow: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hands.

I think the "list" in 1 Tim 5 is a special list of widows who are entitled to full time support by the church. It is for godly women who have lived lives full of good works (1 Tim 5:10) to have a "retirement"- to use a modern word- from having to worry about finances.

So the list in 1 Tim 5 is a kind of special support for a particular class of widows. But I don't think it disqualifies extraordinary help for a 50 yr old who is placed in bad situation by providence.

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Mark
Independent baptist
Singapore

Agree except for the retirement part. I think they may have actually served the church. Continuing to do good works for others, serving and helping others, maybe as an assistant to deacons.

What brand of worms are those, regulative or normative ?

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Rich Koster
1689'er
Browns Mills NJ USA
Often Goofy Reformed Eccentric
Romans 7:14-25

I agree completely. Sorry I may have caused confusion by using the word "retirement". I didn't mean she just sat around doing nothing. I was refering to not having to worry about her financial provision anymore.