1 Corinthians 6:1-11

Backwoods Presbyterian · #1 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Lawsuits Discouraged

1Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints?

2Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

4So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?

5I say this to your shame Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren,

6but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?

7Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?

8On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

In light of Paul's teaching here how should the Christian involve themselves in the State courts? Should we set up Diaconal courts to sort out matters between believers?

Romans922 · #2 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 12:27 AM

I thought elders did this? Or am I confused?

A5pointer · #3 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 09:57 AM

Vs 7 seems to suggest not going to court at all over tort issues. Forgiveness is the rule of all.

TimV · #4 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 10:05 AM

Yes, they are Elders. And in addition, they already exist, at least in confessional Reformed churches, although they are often used so infrequently that many Sessions don't know how to run one.

MOSES · #5 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 12:14 PM

It also depends on the nature of the offense. If there is a crime commited, then the state must get involved, for only the state has the power of the sword to punish evil doers.
e.g., If a child is molested in the church by a "believer" then the church CANNOT settle this issue in house. They must go to the power of the sword to have such a one punished.
note: if an offense is comitted without a crime, then brother should be albe to work it out between brother, if not, bring witnesses, if it still is not worked out bring it to the church.

Romans922 · #6 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOSES

It also depends on the nature of the offense. If there is a crime commited, then the state must get involved, for only the state has the power of the sword to punish evil doers.
e.g., If a child is molested in the church by a "believer" then the church CANNOT settle this issue in house. They must go to the power of the sword to have such a one punished.
note: if an offense is comitted without a crime, then brother should be albe to work it out between brother, if not, bring witnesses, if it still is not worked out bring it to the church.

If this was true, then the person goes to jail or whatever the punishment is, but is not disciplined by the church at all (which is contrary to presbyterianism). Shouldn't it be BOTH (in the case you presented). Turn him over to authorities but also conduct church discipline. If he is unrepentant the elders have the power of the keys of the kingdom.

MOSES · #7 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romans922

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOSES

It also depends on the nature of the offense. If there is a crime commited, then the state must get involved, for only the state has the power of the sword to punish evil doers.
e.g., If a child is molested in the church by a "believer" then the church CANNOT settle this issue in house. They must go to the power of the sword to have such a one punished.
note: if an offense is comitted without a crime, then brother should be albe to work it out between brother, if not, bring witnesses, if it still is not worked out bring it to the church.

If this was true, then the person goes to jail or whatever the punishment is, but is not disciplined by the church at all (which is contrary to presbyterianism). Shouldn't it be BOTH (in the case you presented). Turn him over to authorities but also conduct church discipline. If he is unrepentant the elders have the power of the keys of the kingdom.

Yes...I assumed that to be a given.
That is if the church is a true church and exercises discipline.

Wannabee · #8 (**permalink**) 06-05-2008, 01:46 PM

However, in regard to lawsuits we have another matter. A brother cannot sue a brother. But an brother does have the right to seek restitution from a brother through the church government (elders). He also has the right to seek restitution from an unbeliever through the civil court. If the offending party is guilty and refuses to repent then he is excommunicated and considered an unbeliever. This would then free the offended brother to sue the unbeliever. I'm not saying we should pursue this line of thought. But it is a possibility within the bounds of Scripture.