The Syrophoenician Woman - The Gentile dog?

panta dokimazete · #1 (**permalink**) 02-02-2007, 11:48 AM

Mark 7

The Syrophoenician Woman

24Jesus got up and went away from there to the region of Tyre. And when He had entered a house, He wanted no one to know of it; yet He could not escape notice.

25But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet.

26Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter.

27And He was saying to her, "Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs."

28But she answered and said to Him, "Yes, Lord, but even the dogs under the table feed on the children's crumbs."

29And He said to her, "Because of this answer go; the demon has gone out of your daughter."

30And going back to her home, she found the child lying on the bed, the demon having left.

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Compare and contrast with:
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John 6

Five Thousand Fed

1After these things Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee (or Tiberias).

2A large crowd followed Him, because they saw the signs which He was performing on those who were sick.

3Then Jesus went up on the mountain, and there He sat down with His disciples.

4Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was near.

5Therefore Jesus, lifting up His eyes and seeing that a large crowd was coming to Him, said to Philip, "Where are we to buy bread, so that these may eat?"

6This He was saying to test him, for He Himself knew what He was intending to do.

7Philip answered Him, "Two hundred denarii worth of bread is not sufficient for them, for everyone to receive a little."
8One of His disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, said to Him,

9"There is a lad here who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what are these for so many people?"

10Jesus said, "Have the people sit down." Now there was much grass in the place So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.

11Jesus then took the loaves, and having given thanks, He distributed to those who were seated; likewise also of the fish as much as they wanted.

12When they were filled, He said to His disciples, "Gather up the leftover fragments so that nothing will be lost."

13So they gathered them up, and filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves which were left over by those who had eaten.

14Therefore when the people saw the sign which He had performed, they said, "This is truly the Prophet who is to come into the world."
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It seems fairly obvious that these instances are of a type. Christ using a person's preknown answer to illustrate a point.

Not a declaration of ignorance or disdain, but the Master displaying His power and plan in a way the disciples would remember through the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

Am I stretching here?

panta dokimazete · #2 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 09:05 AM

{bump}

Exegetes? Is this Scripture Interpreting Scripture?

Joshua · #3 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 09:11 AM

[false piety on]
Mr. Longmire, it is so blatantly obvious to any casual reader, so easily interpreted and understood, that I will refrain from even addressing the issue.
[/false piety off]

panta dokimazete · #4 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 09:22 AM

ha! you are probably right, but sometimes the obvious is...not so obvious...and couldn't find this in cross reference or commentary, so did not want to go injecting my own thoughts...

Thanks!

Joshua · #5 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 09:26 AM

I was only Joshin' around. It reminded me of a joke Jerry Clower used to tell about a famous smart scientist and his chaufer. But...surely I digress from your thread. Sorry!

panta dokimazete · #6 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 09:28 AM

Talkin' about my homeboy!

Contra_Mundum · #7 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 09:43 AM

In either case, Jesus has a purpose for asking the question, or making a statment, i.e. an opening move of some kind.

In the first instance, it seems as though Jesus first statement is a refusal (a bit shocking in one sense, but religiously defensible). But the results prove Jesus' real desire and intention is to give aid, for the woman exhibits not temporary faith or frustration, but an unshakable faith and true humility, which exhibition is amply rewarded.

In the second instance, Jesus' question is designed to show his disciples where they consider their primary source of help is, and where it should be. So the question he puts to Philp, "Where...?," John the writer wants to emphasize is not expressed out of uncertainty, but is itself part of the lesson. To begin with, the disciples show that they are not starting off considering how they, themselves ("where are WE to buy bread?") are going to fulfill what is apparently Jesus' intention. In Matthew and Mark's gospels, Jesus explicitly tells the disciples, "YOU give them to eat."

Perhaps the appropriate answer might have been, "If such a thing is to be done, you Lord will have to bring it about." But their scrambling around for earthly resources (which they had to know even before they started were pitifully inadequate) showed that they intended to prove to Jesus just how empty was his promise of hospitality, and how nonsensical it was for him to ask them. But his point was to open their eyes to the necessity, and to the blessing available to them, in reliance upon HIM.

Joshua · #8 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 09:54 AM

Yeah, Bruce, that's what I meant to say. Thanks, now I don't have to.

panta dokimazete · #9 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce

In either case, Jesus has a purpose for asking the question, or making a statment, i.e. an opening move of some kind.

Exactly my point - thanks, Bruce.

I think the disciples remembered this episode of the woman and used it as additional support for their ministry to the Gentiles.

Joshua · #10 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlongmire

Exactly my point..

Uncanny! Mine too!

panta dokimazete · #11 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 04:22 PM

Joshua · #12 (**permalink**) 02-03-2007, 04:24 PM

Poimen · #13 (**permalink**) 02-13-2007, 04:22 PM

I preached a sermon on this story (albeit from Matthew 15 not Mark 7). You may download it for free here:

http://www.bethelurc.org/messages.asp?id=573