Matt. 24

CharlieJ · #1 (**permalink**) 04-30-2009, 11:05 AM

ESV Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.

I am wondering how Jesus' mention of the Sabbath informs our understanding of Matt 24 and its parallel passages. (Sorry that the question isn't more specific.)

YXU · #2 (**permalink**) 04-30-2009, 11:58 AM

I think it helps us to understand the 1st century background, where everything was in transition by the Jewish Christians.

Richard Tallach · #3 (**permalink**) 04-30-2009, 12:25 PM

It also reminds us not to book flights for the Sabbath, because of the unecessary labour involved for cabin crew and ground staff

Seriously, it shows us - along with other things that - part of the Olivet Discourse is dealing with Christ's figurative coming in judgement upon the Jews in 70 A.D. while part is about His Second Advent at the end of the world.

Matthew 24:1-35 may be about Christ's figurative coming in judgement on Jerusalem (See Flavius Josephus, and Marcellus Kik, "An Eschatology of Victory").

Matthew 24:36- 25:46 is about Jesus final advent at the end of the world which is foreshadowed by the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

CharlieJ · #4 (**permalink**) 04-30-2009, 02:43 PM

Thanks. Does anyone with a non-preterist view wish to address the question?

YXU · #5 (**permalink**) 04-30-2009, 07:15 PM

I don't think this has anything to do with preterism. It is commonly received that this is the account of the Jewish and Roman war.

Chrysostom Homilies on Matthew

Quote:

Then, to show again the greatness of the calamity, He says, Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be. Matthew 24:20-21

Do you see that His discourse is addressed to the Jews, and that He is speaking of the ills that should overtake them? For the apostles surely were not to keep the Sabbath day, neither to be there, when Vespasian did those things. For indeed the most part of them were already departed this life. And if any was left, he was dwelling then in other parts of the world.

But wherefore neither in the winter, nor on the Sabbath day? Not in the winter, because of the difficulty arising from the season; not on the Sabbath day, because of the absolute authority exercised by the law. For since they had need of flight, and of the swiftest flight, but neither would the Jews dare to flee on the Sabbath day, because of the law, neither in winter was such a thing easy; therefore, Pray ye, says He; for then shall be tribulation, such as never was, neither shall be.

And let not any man suppose this to have been spoken hyperbolically; but let him study the writings of Josephus, and learn the truth of the sayings. For neither can any one say, that the man being a believer, in order to establish Christ's words, has exaggerated the tragical history. For indeed He was both a Jew, and a determined Jew, and very zealous, and among them that lived after Christ's coming.

What then says this man? That those terrors surpassed all tragedy, and that no such had ever overtaken the nation. For so great was the famine, that the very mothers fought about the devouring of their children, and that there were wars about this; and he says that many when they were dead had their bellies ripped up.

I should therefore be glad to inquire of the Jews. Whence came there thus upon them wrath from God intolerable, and more sore than all that had befallen aforetime, not in Judæa only, but in any part of the world? Is it not quite clear, that it was for the deed of the cross, and for this rejection? All would say it, and with all and before all the truth of the facts itself.

But mark, I pray you, the exceeding greatness of the ills, when not only compared with the time before, they appear more grievous, but also with all the time to come. For not in all the world, neither in all time that is past, and that is to come, shall any one be able to say such ills have been. And very naturally; for neither had any man perpetrated, not of those that ever have been, nor of those to come hereafter, a deed so wicked and horrible. Therefore He says, there shall be tribulation such as never was, nor shall be.

Eusebius Church History III Chapter 5

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4. But the number of calamities which everywhere fell upon the nation at that time; the extreme misfortunes to which the inhabitants of Judea were especially subjected, the thousands of men, as well as women and children, that perished by the sword, by famine, and by other forms of death innumerable—all these things, as well as the many great sieges which were carried on against the cities of Judea, and the excessive sufferings endured by those that fled to Jerusalem itself, as to a city of perfect safety, and finally the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, Daniel 9:27 stood in the very temple of God, so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire — all these things any one that wishes may find accurately described in the history written by Josephus.

5. But it is necessary to state that this writer records that the multitude of those who were assembled from all Judea at the time of the Passover, to the number of three million souls, were shut up in Jerusalem as in a prison, to use his own words.

6. For it was right that in the very days in which they had inflicted suffering upon the Saviour and the Benefactor of all, the Christ of God, that in those days, shut up as in a prison, they should meet with destruction at the hands of divine justice.

7. But passing by the particular calamities which they suffered from the attempts made upon them by the sword and by other means, I think it necessary to relate only the misfortunes which the famine caused, that those who read this work may have some means of knowing that God was not long in executing vengeance upon them for their wickedness against the Christ of God.

Calvin's Commentary

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Then let them who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Having shown by the testimony of the prophet that, when the temple had been profaned, the services of the Law would soon afterwards be abolished, he adds, that fearful and appalling calamities will soon overtake the whole of Judea, so that there will be nothing more desirable than to withdraw a distance from it; and, at the same time, he states that they will be so sudden, that time will scarcely be time allowed for the most rapid flight. For such is the import of the expressions, Let not him who is on the house-top enter into the house; let not him who is in the field turn back; that is, lest, by attempting to save their property, they themselves perish. Again, Woe to the women with child, and to them that give suck; for they will not be in a fit condition for flight. Again, Pray that your fight may not be in the winter; that is, that neither a regard to the sacredness of the day, nor the roughness of the roads, nor the shortness of the clays, may prevent or retard your flight. The design of Christ therefore was, first, to arouse his followers, that they might no longer indulge the hope of ease and repose, and the enjoyments of an earthly kingdom; and, secondly, to fortify their minds, that they might not give way under ordinary calamities. Such an admonition, no doubt, was fir from being agreeable, but, in consequence of their stupidity, and the great weight of the calamities, it was highly necessary.

I think the difference between preterists and historicits are how they treat verse 29 to 31 which most naturally refers to the second coming of Christ.

CharlieJ · #6 (**permalink**) 05-01-2009, 04:06 PM

Ah, ok. Very good. I'm still looking for more perspectives. Is there anyone on here who does not see a reference to the 1st century in the Discourse? If so, how do you interpret the reference to the "Sabbath"?

Richard Tallach · #7 (**permalink**) 05-01-2009, 04:26 PM

I suppose dispensationalists and other futurists view it as warning some - believing Jews or other believers? - to flee from a future tribulation in Israel. Maybe if they left it too late and fled on a Sabbath, their flight would be hindered by Orthodox Jews, who still hold to the Sabbath Day's journey limitations of the Oral Law(?)

No-one can flee from the Second Advent of Christ, and no believer should want to, since He does not come for believers as a thief in the night (I Thess. 5:2-10).

I don't know if there's an historicist explanation that places it somewhere between the end of the first century and today.

Some, like myself, are pretero-historicists - like James Madison MacDonald, mentioned with approval by Charles Hodge in his Systematic Theology - that believe that some events like this are best placed in the first century, while other events from Revelation are later, and the conversion of the Jews, end of apostate Christianity and end of the persecuting state, etc, are future.

Some preterists would see a reference to the visible Second Advent at the end of the world in Matthew 24:27, which anticipates Christ's further discussion of that in Matthew 24:36 and following. In Matthew 24:23-27 Christ is telling his disciples not to expect His literal Second Advent.

Iconoclast · #8 (**permalink**) 05-01-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieJ

Ah, ok. Very good. I'm still looking for more perspectives. Is there anyone on here who does not see a reference to the 1st century in the Discourse? If so, how do you interpret the reference to the "Sabbath"?

Charlie, if I remember correctly[ I no longer hold a pre mill view]
Some believe that tribulation saints [jews converted after the rapture,and alive when the antichrist breaks the covenant in the middle of "the week"]
Would be worshipping in the re-built temple,and still holding to a 7 day sabbath, it is they who must flee the persecution of the anti-christ,